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looking for a cylinder block for series 81 engine,it is 9 inches tall,bore is same as series 80 but the 80 block is 9.5 tall so won’t work for series 81.
Joe knowles (706) 374-6783
I’ll look to see if I have one.
Greg Long
thanks
Thanks Greg.
Joe Knowles
Ok, I looked at two series 80 blocks, they both measure 9″ tall.
If you look on the right front corner of the cast iron block on the corner roughly closest to the right headlamp you will find the same engine number stamped into the iron that is stamped into the aluminum crackcase. The number is stamped starting at the top of the blok, about 1″ below the head gasket then down the corner.
That is if the block and crankcase were originaly together..
Both of the blocks i measured were stamped with an 80xx-xxx number.
I’m pretty sure I have a series 81 block around here too, I’ll look again tomorrow.
What is wrong with your current block ??
Greg Long.
That’s one too Minnie puns, Ed…….
well guess my eyes are getting old I measured an 80 block that belongs to a friend that lives near me using a stick ruler and it was rather dark in the shop and we both were in a hurry, I know not a good excuse for reading the rule wrong. The block in my car has the same number as is on the front mount 8104500. The problem, when I got the car it had a cracked block on #3 cylinder from the intake seat over and into the cyl. and down the cylinder wall about 2 inches, this was repaired by cast welding, cylinder was sleeved and a new seat in the intake. After driving around locally for 150 miles it started pushing water out the over flow to tune of 2 gal. in 20 miles. checks I have made: ran compression check all cyl. with in 1 1b. of each other ran engine with each a plug removed for a total of six times after 30 sec. it would push water out top of radiator, disconnected water pump same thing. I have now removed head and cleaned block surface and head also puled valves, I can see no sign of a crack. the repaired area looks good an i have to look close with a 10x glass to see any evidence of a repair. I would dye check but ran out of developer a couple of years back and have not re ordered may have to though.
Joe Knowles [email protected]
OK, well the Series 80 is notorious for pushing water out of the top of the radiator.
The problem is that the pump is good for about 100-120 GPM. But the radiator, if brand new, perfectly clean
is good for 50-55 GPM. The result is that anything on the suction side of the pump will be under a significant suction when the engine is running.
Greg Loftness pointed the above out to me back in 1992 I think.. I kept pushing water out and couldn’t figure it out. Greg said to check the hose clamps on the lower suction hose/pipe between the radiator and the pump.. My reply was that there was no indication of any water leaks.. He looked at me and said; check the clamps.. so i did, and two of them were only ‘snug’ . I was able to get another 1/2 turn out of the clamp screw, These were modern SS screw clamps…
I then took the car for a hard run, and lost no water..
The loose clamps were able to keep water in, because the water pressure is only gravity pressure from the top of a full radiator to the lower hose is about 24-30″, I can’t do the math, but I’m guessing about 2-3 psi of water pressure..
But when the pump is running, there may be ?? 30 psi negative pressure in the lower hose. The 8cyl and 12cyl Pierce’s use a wire inside the lower hose so it won’t suck flat and starve the pump for water.
The other problem is the radiator.. I call the core a honeycomb, I know that’s not the correct term, but it is NOT a straight tube radiator, the water passageways zig-zag about 1/4″ back and forth, many times from the top to the bottom radiator tank.. The water passageway is only about the diameter of a pencil lead. So there are many corners and restricted spots where bits of rust, gasket material, and globs of waterpump grease can lodge and clog a tube..
My first S80 would heat and push water out in less than a mile,, using a direct contact thermometer inserted in many of the honeycomb openings, I determined that the radiator had only about 5-10% of the tubes open and circulating. After a complete cleaning, [that’s another story] the radiator did very well, and the car stayed cool, until the pump sucked in too much air and pushed the water out as mentioned above.
Once the hose clamps were tight it MOST of the time didn’t push water out.. The water pump packing can also let in air and allow grease to be pulled into the water and this too will cause the volume of water/air mix to be too great in the block and head and push out the top of the radiator.
AND yet another item is what coolant you are using.. A water/antifreeze mix will in most unpressurized cooling systems foam up when circulated fast, and again, this causes the volume of coolant to increase, and push the excess out the overflow.
I run pure water, sometimes with an anticorrosive agent added all summer long, in the fall I drain the water and add 50/50 mix of antifreeze for the winter storage.. Even though my shop is minimally heated, I still like to know that the coolant can’t freeze if something happens to the heat or if the weather gets seriously cold.
So, if the engine is not showing any cracks, I’d put it back together and then lets sort out the coolant issues.
Feel free to contact me.
Greg Long
I had a 50 50 mix in it but kept adding water and then drained the system put water in but still the same problem. I am going to put it back together put in water and check for exhaust gas in cooling system.
Thanks for the info on the cooling system I will check the hose clamps, the water pump has been converted to modern bearings and carbon and ceramic seal thanks for the offer to contact you and I may do so after I have tried the things you found that work many thanks.
Joe Knowles
Have you done any work on the radiator?? is it still a ‘Honeycomb’ core, or has hit been changed to a modern straight tube core??
My ’25 when I got it ran nice and cool, never pushed any water out then after several tours, started acting up. I ran a magnet on a wire into the top radiator tank and removed about a handfull of rust chunks that were sitting on top of the entrances to the cooling passageways.. I also reverse flushed and air/water purged the radiator which netted me even more rust pieces..
Afterwards, the car ran cool again and didn’t loose any water..
Greg Long
When I rebuilt the engine the block was vatted then after putting it together I flushed the block using a air water + washing soda the system I have was common at service station in the south back in the 40 and 50 era some scale may have broke loose since I have been running it and clogged the radiator will flush again. the radiator looks to be still honeycomb. will keep you posted as i progress. new head gasket won’t be here till next thursday.
Joe Knowles
I had a problem with my ’31, with water being pushed out of radiator, particularly when letting off accelerator after a run. The radiator was new (thanks to an aggressive radiator man ruining a good original one)so it had flow, but still couldn’t handle the volume of water being pushed to top tank.
My solution was to take a freeze plug the same outside diameter as the inside diameter of the upper hose, drill a 5/8 inch hole in it, and insert.
Car has run cool ever since, never loses water, even in a recent 100 mile run in 95 degree heat.
It once foamed, but that was because the grease was gone out of water pump and it was pulling in air, new grease and problem solved.
David I tried something along the same line, removed the top neck and thermostat made a plate out of .031 brass drilled a 1″ hole in it installed in place of thermostat and hooked everything back up. didn’t help. I thing the radiator is stopped up from crud even though the block was cleaned and the radiator cleaned after building the engine. the problem showed up after the first 125 to 135 miles on the engine. I can find no cracks in the block or head and no sign of head gasket leaking compression was with in 1 pound on all 6 cylinders. will try the Gregory long solution after cleaning the radiator again. Thanks for the info.
Joe Knowles”
Greg the old 1940 something unit that I have works the same way,it has two glass fluid containers about 3 gal. each with electric heating elements in each air is hooked to a pressure regulator I use 15 psi. there is a reversing valve so fluid can be forced through the bottom outlet and out the top outlet and into one of glass holding tanks then it can be reversed to,flow the other direction, I used this on the engine and the radiator when i built the engine until the water no longer had crud in it. Looked at the radiator today with a light an it now has a bunch of rust scale in the top tank, will clean again. Also it is a straight tube radiator until you mentioned it I had never paid much attention to the construction of the radiator. Wife says come eat so gotta go or be hungry.
Joe Knowles
Joe, I found that the only effective way to clean the radiator was to run HOT soapy water in reverse direction through the core..
I suspended my radiator upside down in a 55 gallon drum, hooked up a siphon tube from the bottom of the barrel to the inlet of my engine, then a hose and pipe combination from the water outlet of the engine to the bottom hose connection of the radiator, which was now at the top, sitting in the barrel..
The water flow was from the bottom of the barrel into the pump, through the engine to heat the water, then out to the bottom of the radiator, through the radiator where it drained out the filler neck into the 55 gallon barrel.
I used a strong laundry detergent with the water.
And for safety I removed the fan from the engine.
The system worked very well to heat and soften the old water pump grease that had congealed in the radiator core. The suds floating on the top of the water in the barrel were brown like mud or coffee, and when inspected after cooling overnight, the suds were allmost all grease with bits of rust flakes in the foam.
The first day i repeated the flushing 3 or maybe 4 times. just enough to raise the water temp to near 200*, then let it cool down.
After an overnight rest and the inspection and removal of the greasy foam in the barrel, I repeated the reverse flushing another 2 times, maybe 3 but did not notice any more grease of rust flakes from the radiator..
This is just my home-grown process, but it worked very well,
Greg Long