Hello Pierce-Arrow Society members.
I am Craig S. Nelson, U.S. Navy (ret). I am currently a senior at McPherson College Kansas majoring in a Bachelor of Science in Automotive Restoration Technology.
McPherson College currently owns two 1930 Pierce-Arrow cars, a Model B roadster, and a Model C sedan. Both cars were donated to the school over 25 years ago. The Model B came with a C chassis and an A engine. The Model C came with a C chassis and a C engine. Both cars are in very poor condition.
The ultimate goal is to fully restore our Model B roadster (serial number 134-R-59) since the body is in relatively fair condition. The Model C sedan body is too far gone to use. The sedan will potentially act as a parts car.
In the past few months, we have begun the disassembly and documentation of our Model B done by the students, myself included, as current and future senior projects.
The goal of this message is to specifically address 3 engines currently own. My partner and I are disassembling and documenting the engines for our senior project. We have completed approximately 33 hours so far. We currently have:
– 1930 “A” engine serial number 300523, casting # 123379, casting date J-4-8, full longblock assembly
– 1930 “C” engine serial number 102558, casting # 731467, casting date J-8-27, full longblock assembly
– 19xx “B” engine serial number 230080, casting # 700860-1, casting date K-10-13, block is bare, 3.5 inch bore, and has an accompanying crankshaft with 4.75 inch stroke.
Our main engine goal is to verify all of our engines with experts based on the data above and the photo link below.
The specific goal is to confirm our “B” engine. We originally believed it to be a 1930 B block. However, we now believe it to be a B block from another year. The photobucket link shows all the pictures for this particular block.
http://s942.photobucket.com/user/craigsnelson/library/1930%20Pierce%20Arrow%20Roadster%20Engine
Our goal with the Model B roadster is to build the most correct car we can with parts that are not original to the car. We believe that the best Model B roadster would have a true B engine and a true B chassis.
If our “B” engine is the best choice, then we will go forward with building that engine. If this “B” engine is from a later model Pierce-Arrow, then our best option at this time is to use our A or C engine.
For parts procurement, we are open to donation offers, outright sale, or trades.
I can be contacted anytime by cell or e-mail [email protected] / (619) 944-8971
Thanks.
http://s942.photobucket.com/user/craigsnelson/library/1930%20Pierce%20Arrow%20Roadster%20Engine
Garrick,
Here is the info on your “A” engine
1930 A 144-in wheelbase, 300523 (Engine installed in Ray Rylander’s 1930 “C”, see ser #1003500)
PAS c. ‘67 to ‘93. Car has ‘30 B rdstr body and ‘30 A engine #300523.
Here is the info on you “C” engine:
1930 C 132-in wheelbase, 1003853 102558 Sedan McPherson (College)
Here is the no on you “B” engine – from a 1932 P-A:
1932 54 137-in wheelbase, 1050363 230080 Sedan (Past Owner) Feusi, Robert J., 7600 Red Bud Rd., Roseville, CA, 95661 c. ’69-’87. (deceased)
I hope this is helpful.
Peter
Hi Craig,
You indeed have a dilemma. It is whether to have a correct YEAR engine, or to have a correct DESIGN engine for your 1930 “B” roadster. The number will be wrong in any case.
The 1930 “A” engine is a 3.5 x5″ 385 cu. in. engine (132 HP), #300/301xxx,
the 1930 “B” engine is a 3.5 x4.75″ 366 cu.in. engine (125 HP), #200/201/202xxx, and
the 1930 “C” engine is a 3.375 x4.75″ 340 cu.in. engine (115 HP), #100/101/102xxx.
Your 1932 Model 54 engine is a 3.5×4.75″ 366 cu.in. 125 HP engine, #230/231xxx, and is basically the same block design as the 1930 “B” engine (and will look authentic if it fits and all the correct 1930 accessories are bolted to it).
I am not a 1930 expert, so do not know if the 1932 engine will bolt up to the 1930 bell housing and 4-speed transmission. (The 1932 used a 3-speed tranny.) Nor do I know if the front engine mount and generator support of the 1932 is the same as the 1930. Member George Teebay (’30 “B” Roadster) or others may be able to answer (chime in, guys).
I would either use the 1930 “A” engine, or the 1932 engine if it fits and if all accessories attach the same. Forget the smaller “C” engine.
My two cents.
Best of luck on your restoration.
Bob
Bob is correct. Thr 32 engine uses a diffrent crank, and a bunch of other stuff. Why not just get a correct block? Give John Cislak a call, he may take the other blocks in trade. He has a bunch of motors at the shop. It’s worth a call. In an open Pierce using the wrong engine will cost you 15 to 25 percent off the top when the car is finished. Details matter on the high end cars. Also, shouldn’t the school be teaching students do it the right way the first time? Just because something is difficult does not mean you shouldn’t try and make it right. Too many good cars have major defects, I see it ALL the time. I look at lots of cars for people, a 30 PA open car with the wrong engine would make me pass on the car. Just my 2 cents.
Hi Craig,
I agree with all of Ed’s points – do it the right way if you can if you want a correct car rather than just an exercise.
Bob
It’s admirable that McPherson College is teaching it’s students that
researching and originality is an important part of doing a proper
restoration that may make the difference in a car’s survivability eons
past the lifespan of its present decision maker. We would be doing a
wise thing to support this institution as individuals and as a club.
Hello everyone,
FYI, Fay Butler is involved with the McPherson College folks, so at a minimum they have access to the Premiere Sheet Metal Fabricator in the Collector Car Hobby.
With this forum, they even have access to the vast opinions of the members of the PAS on matters other than body work.
Peter
PS: Tony, EONS are a long time from now, eh? Now THAT is survivability!
For those who are interested, here is a link to the McPherson College’s automotive restoration web-site.
Tony Costa’s suggestion above to support this institution, either as a club or individually, is worthy of additional consideration.
McPherson students & faculty group photo at 2014 Pebble Beach Concours
Photo around the 1935 1245 convertible, no less!