Engine back in

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  • April 3, 2016 at 11:22 pm #391662
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    After twelve years the engine is back in my ’35. . It was a bit scary and took half a day. I figure the whole assembly was approaching 1000 lbs, and as you can see I had to use the maximum extension of the cheap and cheezy engine hoist (rated at 1000 lbs at max extension) because of the length of the engine and its center of gravity. Even at max extension it was about 6 inches shy of getting it back to the engine mounts and took a lot futzing with a dolley under the transmission to work it back. The pressure was on because the engine hoist’s beam permanently deformed with all the weight and I wasn’t sure whether it might be ready to start failing. I didn’t notice that until it was already halfway in. I hope the thing works so I don’t have to take it out again! Without any sheet metal around it like a ‘60’s car it seems like it should have been easier.

    April 4, 2016 at 12:23 am #401690
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    Congrats on getting the motor back in the car after all these years.

    I look forward to an update saying the motor has been fired up and is running well.

    If the motor does have to come back out for some reason maybe you could remove the transmission first to help reduce overall weight and to bring the center of gravity more forward for easier removal.

    April 4, 2016 at 12:53 am #401691
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    G’day James

    So much for workplace health & safety!! We hobbyists are EXPERTS at improvisation. WELL DONE!!

    jak.

    April 4, 2016 at 9:35 am #401692
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    James,

    Nothing like a bit of anxiety during a restoration! It won’t be long before you have the worry of handling finished painted and chromed parts. Have you decided on the color(s) of the car (blue like shown on the cowl)?

    FYI, I like your Packard color and I always liked vehicles of that era that had four suicide doors.

    April 4, 2016 at 11:28 am #401693
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    I’ll bet the assembly was closer to 120 pounds! The transmission alone is close to 200, one reason I didn’t buy that one at Hershey last year! Didn’t really need it and too heavy! My memory is getting weak (or as my Dad used to say my forgetter is working overtime), didn’t you get it? If so, is it the one now in car?

    April 4, 2016 at 3:17 pm #401694
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    Jim,

    Great to see another major, major hurdle conquered. I am glad you are doing these jobs before I do mine. I get to learn a lot. I think you have convinced me, with this post, to put the engine/trans in before the body goes on.

    Keep us posted and congrats on your progress.

    Bill

    April 4, 2016 at 5:56 pm #401696
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    I meant to say 1200 pounds….I think too quickly and type too slowly…

    April 5, 2016 at 10:05 pm #401704
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    Bill, the problem I had with the hoist was that the engine hoist jack ran into the front cross member of the frame before it got back to the engine mounts. Leaving off the transmission and power brake/free wheel unit probably would have moved the cg of the assembly far enough forward to get the engine a bit further back from the hoist and avoided the problem. I took the whole assembly out in one piece 12 years ago and I guess it was too long ago to remember the problems. I didn’t want to wrestle with engine/clutch/transmission separately in the car. The body was off last year but I had to put it back on because I don’t have enough room with them apart, either the frame or the body had to be left outside.

    Jim

    April 6, 2016 at 9:49 am #401706
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    Hey Jim,

    How about bringing the engine in on the hoist from the side of the frame with a shorter extension?

    Peter

    April 6, 2016 at 8:50 pm #401718
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    That might have worked, it would have solved my first problem of wrestling the engine off of the double ended engine stand. I think the problem coming from the side is the front tire doesn’t allow the engine hoist to get far enough forward to clear the transmission when you bring it in.

    In 20/20 hindsight I could have used my 4-post lift to hang the engine from – duh!

    David: I figured you meant 1200 lbs and you well could be right.

    I probably put too much faith that there was a big safety margin in the simple minded 1/2 ton rating painted on the side of the hoist. If this was airplane world I guess it worked per design – no permanent deformation up to design limit load, permanent deformation allowed but no failure between limit and ultimate (1.5 x limit). 1200 lbs would be in the bad lands between limit and ultimate.

    Jim

    April 7, 2016 at 12:46 pm #401722
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    Jim,

    If the tire was in the way, you might have put the front end of the car on jack stands to remove the offending tire and then brought the engine in from the side.

    Peter

    April 7, 2016 at 4:43 pm #401723
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    Jim,

    The engine install is starting to sound like cat hearding. I was wondering what you did for engine mounts?

    Bill

    April 7, 2016 at 5:10 pm #401724
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    Jim,

    Another question. Was the double ended engine stand a standard piece of equipment or something you did your engineering magic on?

    Bill

    April 7, 2016 at 8:56 pm #401726
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    When did Pierce start putting the data plate on the left side?

    The double ended engine stand, better known as the hoist leveler, is a standard piece of equipment. If you buy a cheap one, you will regret it, and be buying a new block as well… Pierce engines well exceed the rating and likely the engineering design maximum for these tools. As I am an electrical engineer, and therefore not qualified to speak on this subject, I yield to Mr. Coco, a mechanical engineer, to explain. He has an interesting but sad story to accentuate this.

    April 7, 2016 at 9:23 pm #401727
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    As a native Winchester Virginian, I trust this to Mr Coco and Coates

    April 8, 2016 at 5:09 am #401728
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    Sheesh, Bob, just had to bring up my misfortune, huh? That’s OK, as a mechanical engineer I don’t believe in electricity anyway, so there.

    My mishap was not a hoist leveler, but rather not thinking through how my engine was supported as being lifted. I will admit that someone else rigged it, but I saw it and should have stopped it.

    My issue was too long of a bolt. If you have a chain attached to head bolts or head bolt threads, the attachment should be flush to the metal surface. In this case there was a couple of inches of bolt sticking out, the angle of the chain was such that it put a bending moment on the bolts, and sure enough, one of them snapped.

    Let me tell you, it does not take very long for a 1000 pound block to fall about 4 feet. As we all know, if it had been 1000 pounds of feathers, it would have taken longer, right Mr. Newton? Snap/bam was just about all one sound.

    The pan was off but the oil pump still on, and like a good little soldier, the oil pump sacrificed itself to help absorb the blow.

    Again, thanks my friend, for dredging up such wonderful Pierce memories!

    April 8, 2016 at 1:02 pm #401733
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    David,

    Thank you for sharing your experience so we don’t have the same mistake.

    I remember when pulling Small Block Chevy’s or whatever we never tightened the

    bolt all the way down. I am glad you mentioned it so we don’t have your personal

    experience.

    Ken

    April 8, 2016 at 2:27 pm #401735
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    Yup, bolt bending is a real worry, greatly increases the stress. When I first pulled the engine in 2004 (upper picture) the head was off and I used a couple box beams across the head studs to reduce bending in the studs.

    When I installed it last week, the cylinder head was installed and torqued, so I had to find another way. At the front which wasn’t so heavily loaded I used a light box beam bolted to the water outlet with a chain hook between.

    At the back taking most of the weight I used hooks bolted solid to the lower bell housing/engine bolts (grade 8).

    The calculations say this had very large factors of safety, but still a worry when you actually do it. The hooks claimed 3700 lb capability each.

    In reality a 1/4 inch Grade 5 bolt could take the entire weight of the engine and then some if loaded in pure tension or shear – it’s those bending forces that will get you such as the hoist beam.

    April 8, 2016 at 2:52 pm #412901
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    As for my double ended engine stand – it is crude and I’m not too proud of it so not too many pictures. “Mission adequate” and that’s all. Basically it was built out of two regular engine stands bolted together with steel angles and straps. The older one had already supported Chrysler 383 and 440’s cantilevered from one end.

    The problem was how to support the engine with the bell housing installed and still be able to convert it into a rotisserie for working on the engine alone. I built up a separate wood support to do that which created Chinese puzzles to convert back and forth. The upper left picture is when I pulled it out in 2004. The lower right shows the back end installed.

    this kluge got trapped between the hoist and the front end of the engine when I needed to remove it, so I had to disassemble the engine stand while it was hanging on the hoist.

    In 20/20 hindsight and feeling really stupid, I could have easily used the four post lift to do this whole thing by hanging the spreader bar and engine from the garage door end of the lift and use the lift to raise and lower to remove the engine stand, wood frame, and then roll the chassis underneath it using the four post lift to lower it in. Duh!

    I guess bottom line for others – if you have a way of using a chain hoist instead of an engine hoist it will probably go much easier.

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