1939 Pierce Prototype?

Don’t let the cat out of the bag David……..keep that V-16 Pierce under wraps till the restoration is finished!

As it turns out, there is a pic!

And with it some “history”…

Hudson was seriously considering helping Pierce-Arrow in 1938. The Pierce line would have used Hudson body panels and even whole bodies, shipped to Buffalo. Entry Twelve would have used the former 398, Custom Twelve with nicer interior would have run with the 462. Blocks would have been cast by Seagrave. The Eight apparently didn’t fit under Hudson’s bonnet and there was no money to tool a new one. Pierce could only afford longer front pontoon fenders and a taller grill to help cool the V12.

The prototype used Hudson’s standard sedan roof, coupe’s front doors and Convertible Brougham’s rear quarters and deck. Pierce added 4 inch longer rear doors. Wheelbase was 133 inches for both the prototype and a planned 8-passenger sedan that used Hudson’s sedan rear body and deck.

EDIT: we are way past April 1 so this little tale will need to be grandfathered in as an addendum to David’s original AACA forum post.

Thanks David, glad you enjoyed it!

I recall Dave Stevens saying he had several Hudsons and thought the company would have been a natural for Pierce-Arrow. I agree. Unfortunately, the 1938 recession hit Hudson hard after 3 years of profits. The tie-up probably would have needed to have happened in 1935 under Chapin as sales of his new Terraplane took off.

But it is fun to think about this day 80 years ago… Pierce rolling out a prototype after having convinced Hudson to sell stampings and components and making its dealer network available, all enabled by Pierce’s creditors agreeing to fund one last ditch effort on a shoe-string budget.

fender…

Yes, its the modified 1936 Nash Ambassador. I know nothing about it. If anyone does, please share.

Nash was the other big independent that could have collaborated with or bought Pierce-Arrow, to the benefit of both. The 1939 Walker-designed cars are especially well executed and would have served Pierce well through 1948. The ’49 Nash was deficient aesthetically and would have proved a major (read: expensive) challenge for Pierce to make a great luxury car from.

Oivind & Paul,

To execute both of your ideas, all it would have taken was LOTS OF MONEY!

Peter

David,

I am not surprised, as within a year or two of the demise of the PAMCC (which happened on THIS DATE in 1938), all American cars sported fender mounted headlights.

Peter

The big Lincoln K’s had fender mounted headlights beginning in 1937 when P-A was still in production. The Lincoln Zephyr had fender mounted headlights with its introduction in 1936. It would be interesting to know if Lincoln had a NYC “plan B” for bracket mounted lights – or – if by 1936, NYC was no longer enforcing that law.

Today, the life of a patent is 20 years; “assuming” the same life back in 1913, PA’s fender mounted patent design (applied for in 1913 & issued in 1914) would have expired in 1933 or 1934. PA could have also trademarked the fender mounted headlight design the rights to which would have lived through 1938.

Curious about Nash sharing opportunities circa 1937/8, ran this out to see what was possible. Worked from a ’38 2-door sedan to create club sedan that Nash didn’t offer.

Rear door inners & window frames, front fenders and fascia would have been new, everything else stock Nash. Frame/chassis work forward of firewall to mount the Eight and Twelve and maybe Pierce’s steering system. I added an inch to the 125” wb Ambassador Eight to ensure the 385 would fit and because Pierce did same when it shared with Studebaker.

A second model could have been a 6-pass convertible Victoria working from Nash’s 3 passenger business coupe. Again, very little tooling on Pierce’s part and no comparable Nash model.

George Mason, who joined Nash in 1937, was the visionary behind the “Big 4th” strategy post-war. I wonder what he thought of Pierce-Arrow back when they were struggling… and available.