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While on the Pierce Arrow tour in Sequim, WA this weekend Paul Murray and I diagnosed the problem with my 1934 840A Club Brougham. Upon climbing hills, or when I accelerate, I would get a “Tick, Tick” noise from the engine. We discovered at those times the oil pressure dropped to ZERO as all the oil rushed head long to the back of the oil pan. Doing this obviously starved the front rod bearings and cause the noise.
I topped off my oil level and even went 1 quart over and the problem went away. I’m wondering if anyone has ever encountered the same problem and if someone has explored developing some kind of baffle system in the oil pan to hold lube up front and slow, or stop, the rush to the rear ? I plan to keep the oil level high, but wonder if making internal modifications to the oil pan might also be a wise move ?
Any thoughts, suggestions, wisdom out there for a rookie !!
Thanks,
The oil pump in the 840-A engine (all engines 1933 to 1938) is fitted with a “Floto”” floating screen oil pick up which is loosely hinged to the oil pump body. It floats only slightly submerged below the surface of the oil in the pan. I suspect that the Floto may not be moving up and down properly and is becomning uncovered allowing cavitation to occur causing a drop in oil pressure. Adding the extra oil may well have brought the oil to a level to allow the Floto to pick up oil.”
Paul’s answer is ‘spot on’..
George Teebay’s Silver Arrow had identical symptoms. I removed the oil pan and the ‘Floto’ did not move freely, it was stuck in the ‘up’ position.
The problem was that the suction tube on the ‘Floto’ has a ring on it that is used to retain the tube in the oil pump housing, and a cotter pin is inserted in the pump housing to retain the tube by blocking the ring from coming out of the pump body..
The cotter pin was just a bit too large in diameter, and was exerting pressure on the ring, the friction kept the ‘Floto’ from moving freely..
Once a correct size cotter pin was installed, the ‘Floto’ moved freely and the symptoms went away.
I see no need to add windage partitions to the oil pan, just make sure the Floto is free to move.
Greg L
The depth of knowledge of the PAS membership never ceases to amaze me.
Only two and half hours after the original post a ‘spot on’ solution was posted.
Great work, guys.
Well put Craig.
Thank you for this. Now….how about telling me your secret for doing this fix without dropping the oil pan ?
Small Joke !!
Thanks again….
Rich
I guess you can remove the oil fill neck, and snake a flexible bore-scope into the crankcase, maybe you can get the bore-scope to show if the floto is or is not stuck in the up position.
Then, if you are really creative you could use either the dipstick hole, or remove the covers over the lifter gallery and use the gaps around the lifter guides to access the lower crankcase.
If the floto is stuck up, then maybe a poke or two with a stiff wire to see if it will drop freely.
If the floto is not moving freely, then dropping the oil pan is required to free it up..
Dropping the pan is not a big deal, Plus, dropping the pan allows you to clean the screen on the floto, and to remove the oil pump cover and inspect the pump body and gears for scores and wear. Both good things to do on our cars.
Take and share photos when you get the pan off..
Greg L
I just checked and my Floto is floppy. A week ago I wouldn’t have known to check it. I’m thrilled, my wife, not so much. That explains a lot of things.
We are rebuilding a 1910 36uu, engine. We could use some engine specs, ie crankshaft journal diameter both main and con rod, bearing clearances and valve clearances. We will keep you updated on our progress
Thank you
I need to fashion a screen for my Floto, but I have never seen a screen. If someone can describe, or has a photo, ‘twould be a big help. 1933 thru 1935.
Also, selecting the diameter of that cotter pin to not be too small is important or the Floto will in future float away.
Another interesting fact, there are no less than four different oil pans made over the years for the eight. And no less than three different dipsticks for cars, and another for the Seagrave eight. It would be a good move that all members check to see how their dipstick reads after a oil change, when the engine has the correct amount of oil in it. Otherwise it’s possible to overfill by 3 or 4 quarts if the oil dipstick is incorrect. I have tried to figure out which pan and dipstick go together, but over the years so many get swapped out ( both pan and stick) that I hadn’t had any luck figuring it out.