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OK, so we’ve all heard the tale that New York State, or New York City, “outlawed” fender headlights, thus the bracket headlights were needed.
I’ve searched the Internet, found a lot of information on New York State and headlight laws dating from the teens. However, most of these laws have to do with brightness and aim of headlights. I can find NOTHING that discusses fender headlights.
Other information show that Pierce offered the bracket headlights as an option to customers desiring them, but again, I can’t find anything that states they were mandated by law. For example, some lenses were outlawed, see the attached list for “approved” lenses in 1922.
Is this story just a rumor (you know, like Rolls Royce engine heads being sealed for life), or does anyone have any positive, written, evidence that it’s fact. And, with all due respect, I don’t mean “I’ve heard it all my life so it must be true”, I mean chapter and verse of the New York law that states fact.
Thanks! David C.
http://www.carsandracingstuff.com/library/articles/17727.php
We have had a good deal of discussion of this very same subject on the Facebook page. I spent some time trying to research laws of both New York City and laws of New York State online, and came up with bupkis. I did find a law concerning motor vehicles that have to be equipped with “approved lights” before they can be registered, but no mention of certain lights being illegal.
A number of states had requirements on headlight lenses in that period of time and the clear glass lenses on earlier cars became illegal unless the car was fitted with fluted reflectors not unlike what you see on some cars today.Pierce Arrows prior to 1919 fitted with plate glass lenses were in many cases fitted with Bausch&Lomb,Patterson,Conaphore or other such lenses or fluted Brown or Flatlite reflectors to make the headlights legal.In more recent years,European Code headlights were not legal in the USA and this is why imported automobiles had to be fitted with SAE sealed beams until about 1985 when laws were changed.The Pierce Arrow fender headlights were not legal in some export markets.I have seen a photo of a 1929 Pierce Arrow delivered in France with bracket mounted Marchal headlamps.
I understood that the headlight POSITION was the problem and not the lenses, per se.
The family lore is that my 1925, Series 80 with fender mounted headlights (New York born and liveried until 2006) was fitted with cowl lights by my Great Uncle Joe (a PAMCC Supervising Foreman) to meet state requirements.
Perhaps the “aiming potential”” of the fender mounted headlights is different from that of the bracket mounted headlights.
“
I agree that lenses were a big issue back then. New York was trying to eliminate glare to oncoming motorists, as it apparently was blamed for many wrecks, people blinded by the light. They also mandated that at 75 feet, the beam of light could be no more than 42 inches off the ground. I’d like to see how they figured that out.
I’m not disputing that there were headlight related laws. I’d just like to see proof that Pierce Arrow was targeted by any law that said the fender headlights were illegal.
The law, if it exists, would have to be Pierce related, since as we all know that’s a trademark and patent and no other company had such lights.
So, I’m being the devil’s advocate, and saying that no such law existed, and bracket headlights were a customer option and never required by law.
Now, if someone can prove me wrong, I’ll accept that, but it has to be in the form of period laws.
The Pierce Arrow bracket headlights I believe sit lower so any law in regards to this might have to do with the headlight height.I have seen old photos though of New York registered Pierce Arrows with fender headlights.I have always thought this issue was due mostly to some people wanting to downplay they were driving a Pierce Arrow much like Rolls Royce and Bentley of a few years back where both cars were indentical except for the grille shell.People who wanted to downplay would buy a Bentley.One could perhaps search the New York statutes of around 1918 or so to get an answer on the fender headlight issue.
I was told when we bought the 1927 Model 36 that it was a New York model. True of not, were told that the headlights were set in off the fenders so that with so horse and carriages would not try to go between them. I have tried several times to post a pic on this message board with no success. There are pic of car on AACA Forums, Pierce Arrow 1927 Model 36
New York city model
I just went out and measured the distance between my fender headlamps…from inner lens to inner lens it is approximately 41 inches…give or take a few 1/8’s of an inch…so you’re saying that a horse and carriage would somehow mistake this width for what?… two motorcycles going down the rode and try to fit between them?…that makes no sense at all…but then, we talking about a law that, not only can we find no proof of, but that makes no sense at all…
The fender headlights could be vulnerable in an accident should the fender be hit.Some purchasers of Pierce Arrows might have felt the bracket headlights would less likely to be damaged.Perhaps the Pierce Arrow Company wanted to give their clientele a choice.
I think there are a lot of antique car “truisms” that aren’t really true, and my intent with this discussion is to determine if the New York headlight story is true or false.
It’s easy for a story to be told so many times that it becomes “true”. It’s my understanding that most of those Cord or Auburn “This car has been driven 100 mph by Ab Jenkins” were plaques made in the 1960’s. Captain Kirk on Star Trek never, in any episode, said the exact words “Beam me up, Scotty”. Henry Ford said any color as long as it’s black, which is interesting since his first Model T’s were red and, I think, green. It’s not “money is the root of all evil”, it’s really “the LOVE of money is the root of all evil”. The Stanley brothers would NOT give you a free car for holding down the throttle all the way on a car for one minute. The list goes on.
I’ve searched the teens New York headlight laws, as Curtiss mentions, and have yet to find any mention of fender headlights…..
After some years of poring over Pierce-Arrow miscellania I have yet to trace the legendary New York law. The Company noted in the late ‘Teens that the bracket lamps seemed to be preferred for closed formal jobs, but that either mounting was optional to the owner. (They had their own lamps for the brackets, as you know.) No mention is ever made of New York law in factory material I have seen. But the rumor is quite embedded in the mystique.
I have serious doubts that it is true.
Also, I seriously doubt the Stanley twins ever gave anything away to anyone.
I once stopped at the side of a road because a 1937 ford sedan had a for sale sign in it sitting in front of a house that looked like it was ready to fall over. As I was looking the car over a gentlemen came over and started conversing with me about the car…I asked the usual amount of questions, does it run, how long have you had it, etc, etc…the conversation was going pretty good until he mentioned that “Clyde Barrow rode in this car!”….well that pretty much sealed the deal for me…considering Clyde barrow was killed in an ambush in 1934…Like David pointed out, the story had been told so much it was just accepted as truth.
Roger,
Thank you for your learned and amusing comments.
Peter
Curtiss,
Do you want to buy a slightly used bridge?
It’s in Brooklyn.
Peter
Gents,
Many years ago, I worked as a consultant for Woodman’s, in Essex, Massachusetts.
Woodman’s is a Clam Joint and claims to have “invented” the Fried Clam.
Larry Woodman (RIP), then President of the family firm (started in 1918 or so), once told me about their “invention” that History is what one person claims and no one disputes.
Thus it may be with Bracket headlights on Pierce-Arrow motorcars and “New York Lights.”
Peter
Well there may be a lot of bull crap in what the headlights on our 1927 Model 36 are called. It still gives me a great feeling when I stand in front of this great car and look at those headlights, then get behind the steering wheel and go for a ride.
By the way, it makes a poor boy like me feel like a million bucks. Chuck M
Peter,
I will trade you the bridge for some ocean front property I own in Arizona…
Charles, happy to hear this new car brings you joy.
Welcome to the PAS!-John