Engine numbers and casting numbers explained….

Dennis,

What year car is this in? How many cylinders? Are you sure the 123379 number is not a casting number? It does not fit in any P-A engine number sequence I can find. There are several cars listed in the PAS database with this as the engine number which makes me think it is a casting number.  If this is an 8 cyl., the engine number should be STAMPED on a flat midway down the block at the joint with the head on the driver’s side. A correct serial number would indicate the year.

The other number looks like a casting date code, except that it should start with a letter.  5-16 = May 16th. If the first character were a “J”, it would be 1929. Could it possibly be an “L”, which would be 1931?

Dave

Dennis,

Yes, the serial number indicates a 1929 Sedan.  The engine number in that car should start with A-.  Looking at near cars by serial number, it would be A-5xxx.  Please confirm for me that the engine number you have was stamped on a flat on the left side of the engine. The reason I am questioning the engine number is the only 8 cyl. engine numbers in PAS records that start with 1xxxxx are from a 1930 Model C, and these numbers only go to 102806. Attached is a photo of another 8 cyl engine with your exact number cast into the block, This is not the engine number. I have also attached a photo of the left side of an 8 cyl showing the correct location of the engine number.  ’31 engine numbers start with 22xxxx or 32xxxx.

Records we have on that car only show the ownership (Robert Howe of MA) up to the late ’60s. Interestingly, that record has a question mark for the engine number. Is it your car or do you have any other ownership history? If you have a high res photo of the left side of the engine you could e-mail me it would really help. Sorry to keep throwing questions at you.

Do you have anything to worry about? It depends on how much you value originality. If you want it for a show car, it would probably cost a few points. It is hard to say the effect on value, but I would think a little maybe, again, unless someone wants it as a show car, it would be more. As far as points loss, you would have to check with Rick Horne, PAS head judge.

As a driver, I wouldn’t think it would make a lot of difference. I am not that familiar with the working of the 8 cyl. engines, so I will let someone more knowledgeable comment on which might be the better engine. There are some differences in different years. Depending on year and what model it came from, it might actually have a larger displacement than the original.

Yes, that is a casting number, not the engine number. Do you have any photos higher up on that side of the block that might show the engine number?

I see what you mean about the casting date code. It certainly looks like “1” or an “I”.  An “I” would indicate 1928 which I guess is theoretically possible  since I believe the first ’29 car came out in very late 1928. But I think May of ’28 is pretty unlikely.  We really  need the correct engine number.

Dave

Yep, the bell of the horn is blocking the view of the number.

It has been well documented in the past that Pierce-Arrow aged their raw block castings for about one year before machining them.  So the casting date of Michael’s block, Dec 2, 1928, is proper for a 1930.