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I am sure we know about this car.
Just passing info.
William,
There appear to be 49 Model 65 (1907 – 1908), Model 60 (1909) and 66s (1910 – 1918) ( Q, QQ, A, A-2, A-3, A-4) from 1907 to 1917 known to exist and / or owned by Society members.
The total number produced is estimated at 1,584 with 540 recorded as known to exist as of 2011.
In 1913, 200 were produced.
There are currently 16 listed on the PAS Roster.
They are indeed rare and hugely substantial Pierce-Arrow Motorcars that GO LIKE THE WIND!
The 66 on eBay is a KNOWN car and was owned by a PAS member.
In the reconstruction of that 66, the frame of #66715 was copied by Russ Miller, of Sparks, Nev. to complete frame. and the body of #66715 was copied by Ray Graber.
P-A 66715 is reported to be in the possession of Rodney Flournoy of Northern CA, and knowing Rodney, he LIKELY (Joke!) drives it LIKE THE WIND! (Info from Bernie Weis list)
Rodney lives in Likely, CA.
Peter
The auction car’s number is 66748. It would appear to not be Rodney’s
#66715. Peerless also produced an 824.7 cubic inch engine ’12, ’13 ’14
and ’15’.Bore was 5″ and stroke was 7″, like Pierce’s. Peerless outdid
Pierce by inserting 572 cubes to Pierce’s 524 cubes in their 48HP cars
(’12, ’13, ’14,’15). Marmon had 572 cubes in their 48HP cars ’13, ’14,
and ’15.
SAE horsepower formulas only considered bore sizes. In other words,
any car with a 3 3/4 inch bore was 22HP. Stroke or cubes didn’t
matter. By 1910, a University had a machine that could apply a brake
on engine output. Brake HP didn’t become common until well into the
twenties.
This didn’t stop car advertisements from using fictitious HP’s in
the teens. My ’14 Chalmers was advertised as 60 HP with 72 brake HP
(415 cubes). 1914 Packard 48HP had 84 brake HP (524 cubes).
I’ve watched early Pierce cars for years, and lost out on two very early cars due to poor decision making on my part, a 1909 24 and a 1910 36.
It seems at one time that replicated cars, with major components being new (such as the body and frame of this one)were close to par in value with original ones. Now, from what I’m seeing, a known replicated car has much less value than one with a pedigree and history.
That said, there are a lot of early cars out there that have had major work, but some of THAT history is being lost as time goes by. I’ve walked Hershey with a friend who is one of the top brass car experts in the US, and it was fascinating….he’d point out this car that had a rear body replaced by Harrah’s, or that car that started out as an engine and some parts….
You are correct Tony, this car is not Rodney’s car. The confusion might be in the fact that the body on this car was built using Rodney’s car as a template. There were 3 bodies built at the same time by Graber, one resides on this car, one is on the Jensen/Garrnet 66 and the other one is on Rodney’s car. These bodies are sheet aluminum with a wood frame and not cast. Not all the bodies in 1913 used cast bodies. Considering what the last one sold for this is not a bad price,, just needs to be finished and you can pick your own color.
My LUST-O-METER is at full-deflection up into the red zone, labeled ‘bankruptcy’
.
After driving Ernie Follis’s 1917 66 a few years ago, I put owning a ’66’ on my bucket-list. But, unless I have some financial windfall, like winning a lottery, I doubt I’ll be able to cross that item off my ‘bucket-list’.
Greg Long
Greg, I’m with you on that….and since I do upholstery work, then it would just be the cost of materials and a paint job to finish! Oh, and having you sort it out mechanically…..
None of my comments were meant to take away from what a GREAT car this would be for someone….and, again, like Greg, wish it were “me”” someone!”
The first HCCA Tour I took my 1912 Pierce 36HP to was held in Sun
Valley. Bill Harrah was there, along with one of his favorite cars out of
1453, his 1913 Pierce-Arrow 66.This tour must have been special to him as
he flew our lunch from Reno,food, servers, plates, tables, the works.
125 pre-15 cars showed up for lunch at his ranch in Stanley, Idaho. That
night Cecil Andrus, the Governor of Idaho and future Sec. of the Interior
Welcomed us to Idaho. Harrah had 2 armed guards with him.
I managed to pass Leo Plamindom(SP) in his fast Stevens Duryea and
incurred his wrath. My widow can cite the car’s race heritage when she
disposes of it.
Tony,
If you plan to DISPOSE of your 1912 P-A, how about my taking it off of your hands, for FREE!
I won’t even charge a Disposal Fee!
If not the 1912 Pierce-Arrow, how about the Marmon?
Just load one of them in one of your trailers and I will head to California, Lickety Split, to pick it up.
I will even take you out to Lunch as a Thank You.
Peter
Thanks for your concern, Peter. I don’t have a widow yet, so the
question is moot. I’ll take you up on the lunch though, as long as you
don’t share your stogie. They remind me of my mentor, Mr. Roland Zillmer.
Tony