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I am a recent purchase of this car. I am familiar with other early cars and have mechanical aptitude. I have an OMB, but not much else. The car has been driven by the past owner and is in good driving and mechanical condition.
Where do I best begin to care for the car? Mechanically? Driving?
Hello Bill, welcome to the PAS. And congratulations on your purchase of a wonderful Pierce Arrow.
Mechanically, the most important item is lubrication. This also is sort of like ‘bonding’ with your Pierce. When you look in the owners manual and follow the lubrication chart, you will pretty much be touching or looking at 90% of your car.
The lubrication procedure does several important things:
You will become familiar with most of your car’s moving parts.
You will see the parts that have received regular lubrication.
You may find some areas that have been neglected.
You may find some areas that due to wear need mechanical attention.
The main wear areas are of course the engine. And the drivetrain.
The universal joints on these cars are prone to a being neglected for regular lubrication because
they are difficult to get to, and often very messy to properly clean and lubricate.. Since any worn parts must
be made by a machinist, it pays to lubricate regularly, inspite of the amount of bother and work it takes.
Do you know the maintenance and rebuild history of your engine? Regular engine oil changes are very important, because the engines have only screens to ‘filter’ the oil. This means that there still is plenty of abrasive dirt that gets circulated through the engine’s bearings. And the only way to ‘clean’ the oil is to drain it and replace with new, fresh clean oil..
The design of the oil passages in the crankshaft creates an area that accumulates dirt and sediment from the oil. These areas are in each connecting rod journal. What happens is as the crankshaft rotates, the oil in the rod journal is centrifuged by the 5.5″ circle it is making, much of the suspended dirt and muck in the oil is captured in the 3/4″diameter by 4″ long oil passageway.
If you do not know of when the oil pan was last dropped, and these oil passageways in the crankshaft cleaned, then I would recommend using ONLY non detergent oil. Detergent oils available today are not as powerful at cleaning out accumulated dirt and muck like the first high-detergent oils were. But taking any risk at damaging the engine’s bearings is not wise..
I dropped the oil pan on my 1919 Series 31 engine shortly after I purchased the car, and was amazed and disgusted by the muck in the crankshaft rod journals.. Thankfully no serious damage had been done by the dirty oil. I do believe that if I had done several back-to-back oil changes, that some of this trapped muck would have been pushed through the rod bearings and caused damage..
So, if you can find out when the engine last had the oil pan down for a lower-end inspection and if the oil journal plugs were removed and the journals cleaned out.. then you will know if you need to look into this matter yourself..
There are threaded plugs in each end of the journal in each crankshaft throw.
Cooling systems need either fresh antifreeze in the water each fall, or added anti-corrosive agents like Napa-Cool, Penn-Cool 2000 or 3000. The anti corrosive agents reduce or eliminate galvanic corrosion in the cooling system.. The aluminum water manifold on the top of the engine’s cylinders tends to be eaten-away internally by galvanic corrosion.
What ever products you use in the cooling system you must NOT use ‘extended life’ RED/Orange antifreeze. It has been proven to cause many issues with old style gasket materials and cause extensive corrosion problems in antique cars.. Use ONLY regular green ‘Ethylene Glycol’ antifreeze. If the current antifreeze/coolant is red.. drain and flush immediately !!!
The above will keep you busy for a while.
Greg Long
Bill,
Congratulations on a great car. I am getting ready to move to Berkeley Lake and will have some shop space should you need any help.
Bill Lyons
Bill,
You are a very lucky guy. Owning a series 4 Pierce is a dream come true.
Pay close attention to what Greg described above. When I got my 1918 48 a year ago, we did exactly what he
prescribes and I couldn’t believe the black-tar like gunk that we cleaned out of those journals. Thankfully we didn’t start it first. He didn’t mention that the journal caps are staked. You will have to drill out the stake and then heat
the cap slightly in order to get it to unscrew. I only did one side and cleaned thoroughly with a brush and lots of brake clean. Restake the cap when you put it back on. My motto for this car is “keep it clean and keep it lubed””
Congratulations”
Bill,
This car was worked on by Paui Murray, Murray Motor Car, Monroe, WA in prep for driving to Pebble Beach. It was driven down there 2x and apparently had no problems. You may want to contact Paul for any info he has about the car. He’s in the roster and a wonderful Pierce mechanic……The journal cleaning described above may not be necessary with its current history……..but then again, it wouldn’t hurt to check them out sometime.
Congratulations and a big Welcome to the Pierce-Arrow Society. The best cars, the best members, and the best club. I’m glad you followed through after our phone conversation.
You’ve already been put in touch with a number of contacts locally and above to help you enjoy your new vehicle. Another person further East that I’d recommend if you ever need professional assistance would be Peter Fawcett near Toronto.
If you didn’t receive a 2017 roster yet, let me know and I’ll send you one.
You should attend the upcoming Winter Mini-meet in Pine Mountain, GA the beginning of March. The info is on the website. I hope to meet you there!
Dave Stevens
I believe this is a fine car, but it encountered plenty of problems on the
Pebble Beach Motoring Classic. It will need some mechanical work. I also believe that it was rebodied some years after it was first built.
Welcome to the Pierce Arrow Society.
You have a beautiful car.
There is no better place for information and no finer people than you will find in the PAS.
Wow! Thanks for all the help. Especially Greg Long and a good place for me to start.
Will also will contact Paul Murray, and seek his advice.
John Crowell, “encountered plenty of problems on the
Pebble Beach Motoring Classic. It will need some mechanical work.’ Has me concerned. Also that it was bodied at a later date. Any more info would be greatly appreciated.
Dave Stevens, delightful chat and I have been in phone conversation with Peter Fawcett. Will be looking to him for parts and advice, Apparently, his father was very a fan of the 48B. Peter seems following that tradition.
I have talked with Rick Horne and his wife Liz and he are sponsoring the Winter Mini-Meet in Calaway Gardens. Rick lives about 60 miles south of me.
My car was bought in 2015 by Jeff Chattin who lives in Canton Georgia. He seems to know a lot about Pierce cars and has a great knowledge in brass cars. He currently drives a 1909 Lozier Briarcliff; a 1909 Kissel Kar speedster; and a few others. I took my 1920 Cadillac to him today to have his mechanic work on the starter-generator.
I enjoy networking with people, especially in the early cars.
I have a collection of other cars spanning from 1914 to 1960 in my warehouse in Atlanta. I am building a display barn in Stone Mountain Georgia.
I am very new about Pierce, mostly I have worked on Cadillac, Packard, Auburn and Lincoln Willoughby. I particularly like customs, like FR Wood, Brewster, Willoughby and other coachbuilt cars.
I Please solicit any more information about my Pierce. It is unusual and to me I like the low, rakish and sporty look. But I like all well-made cars!
I somehow missed the box below so I could get responses by email. This is why I was a while in responding to you. I was wondering why I was not hearing from you all and found seven responses! I am retired and spend my time driving classics and networking on the internet!
Bill,
I had a good talk with Paul Murray about your car yesterday. You would do well to call and talk with him. He knows that car very well and can fill you in on its history and condition. He’s impressed with it and quite confident it is in excellent condition.
Thank you Richard. I have his contact information from the Roster. Will call him today.
I have a checklist from Greg Long (above) and another checklist from the Seller, Jeff Chattin. Yesterday, I just brought it home from Jeff. It hs been snowing in Atlanta and did not want to carry it in poor weather.
My enclosed trailer was stuck in the mud from melted snow, but the weather was sparkling clear. BTW my wife, Anne, has a passion for these cars as well as me.
Now, I can actually get my hands on it!!
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Bill, that’s a very handsome Pierce, congratulations!
The top profile is more 1930 than 1916! I’d be interested to see the mechanism (steel framework). The low top does make a nice appearance.
I would suggest you put the tie downs to the axle, not the wheels as shown, as that point load would put undue stress on the spokes. I think I can see a winch cable attached to the axle, which is good.
Welcome to the Wonderful World of Pierce Arrows!
David, The body is by F.R. Wood & Son. The only Pierce Arrow is the front fenders. The frame and running gear is PA. The entire body is more “sporting” than a factory body of 1916. I am not sure when it was ‘bodied’. May have been born that way or redone later.
It does work. I am not yet a knowledgeable PA person, just taking baby steps. Please let me know with any help.
I thought I had tied most carefully to the felloes on the wheels, trying to avoid the spokes, however will ties to the axles in the future, thanks, David
I m planning a new top and side curtains, using a darker material. The tires are in excellent condition, but would like to replace with Blackwall tires. We did reconfigure the spare to the rear and give a cleaner line IMHO.
Made my first drive! Whew! Went through the starting procedure, and it burst into life and a quiet happy (fast) idle, a bit too much hand throttle. Leaned out the mixture, advanced the spark. Eased into 1st gear. Foot slipped off the clutch pedal and it surprisingly jumped forward. throttle a little high.
Quick reflexes. And back on the clutch. Handbrake. Stopped good enough, but scared me. Bit of getting the hang of reverse. Yeah PUSH DOWN and all the way forward. Smooth.
Major glitch was about the pedals with the throttle between the brake and clutch. Too easy to hit the throttle when hitting the brakes. Especially having had some tips about driving, several people said to really use the emergency brake. It does work better than the foot brake.
I have a good checklist from PAS friends and I use it carefully.
Loaded the wife and off for adventure. The seller had drained the tank to be sure the gas was good, put in 5 gallons ethanol free. That should last a while and we headed off to Stone Mountain Park. About ten miles of very good paved roads and a 25mph speed limit.
Tricky getting used to right-hand drive. The pedals coordinated. At first, using mostly the throttle on the steering column and the handbrake. Did well. Very few traffic.
Enjoying the cool breeze. A handful of Park visitors, mostly hanging open mouths, poking each other shoulders and pointing at us as we drove by.
This car is a parade on its own!
Decided to go home. OUt of the Park, the chuff-sound signaling we are out of gas! We parked beside the road like a beached steamboat. Wife decided to relax in the back seat as I trudged about 1/2 mile to a gas station, borrowed a five gallon can, trudged back and added the gas.
Back in the car, grateful it has an electric fuel pump. Let it do its magic bringing the gas from the tank to the carb. Feeling like an old hand, using my foot to press the priming button a few time, and the giant six, sprang to life, and we were off to our home.
Took a jaunt through Stone Mountain Village. A friend ran across the street to have a better look and talk. I went bumfuzzled a minute, brake peddles, the handbrake at the same time, de-clutched and as my foot descended on the brake pedal and the engine roared when I accidentally hit the throttle pedal.
My friend backed up suddenly. I got everything under control with no mishaps. He admired and we drove home. A bit tired and ragged keeping all the process in my mind to be sure the Pierce and I were synchronized.
The car has some quirks, but we are getting to know each other. Fortunately, I have some experience with older cars, 1920 Cadillac, a handful of Model Ts, 1933 Packard, So it was not a totally new experience.
Bottom line is that we had a blast! Love this Pierce!
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Great story of the drive!
Wish we were closer, that would be a fun car to put a top on. I have a 1919 top that I’m working on now, in between other jobs.
That said, I’m trying to get out of the trimmer work, I do it as a hobby now that I’m retired, but I’m not getting any of my own work done!
Hi Bill,
Thanks for the ‘ride report’ .
I have to laugh, that center throttle pedal ‘gets’ me too! Way, way too many years of center BRAKE pedals.. Learning new ‘muscle-memory’ is not easy..
Hint: experiment with low throttle settings. and easing out the clutch. That is or should be a cone clutch.. They can be wonderfully smooth, or they can be grabby.. learn what works with your car.. it gives you confidence and you can really impress the crowds when you ease away from a dead stop, without using any throttle.
You wrote that you have an electric fuel pump.. ‘WHY’ ? your car had originally a pressure-feed fuel system. There was a hand pump in the dashboard, you turned it 1/4 turn to unlock it, and pumped air into the fuel tank, then bottomed the pump handle, and gave it 1/4 turn clockwise. There was a ‘GASOLINE’ gauge in the instrument cluster graduated 0-6 pounds. [not sure on the max reading] The engine and fuel system are happy with 1.5-2.0 pounds of air pressure.
Once the engine is running, a small air pump, driven off the engine oil pump drive keeps the air pressure up, and regulated..
It is VERY difficult to regulate an electric pump down to only 2# of pressure. So flooding the carb is very common with an electric pump on a Pierce engine earlier than the ’30’s..
So, could you show us an image of your instrument panel. The cap on your gas tank, and a photo of each side of your engine ?? I know this forum only allows one photo per message, but a few will help us understand your car.
Or: you can send me an email with a group of images, this way we can sort out what is what with that fuel system..
My email: [email protected]
I have to laugh.. when you wrote: ‘put in 5 gallons of ethanol free, that should be enough’.. 5 gallons will almost get me around the block.. these cars get 5-6mph unless you are intentionally paying attention to speed, wind, and mixture. then?? maybe 8-9mpg. And, depending on what has been modified in your fuel system, there might be several gallons unusable.
Looking forward to some additional photos !
Greg Long
Bill,
Getting used to an RHD Pierce Arrow does take a bit of practice.You have to double clutch and speaking of the clutch,you need to be sure it has the correct amount of pure neatsfoot oil and that the clutch brakes are properly adjusted.Be sure to read the car’s handbook as it provides alot of information.I saw your postings on the AACA site as to where a Series 4 in the case of a low serial number could be considered a 1915 model.The Series 4’s I believe were starting to go out the door about December 1,1915 so actual production started a bit earlier.The previous Series 3 had a long run so to speak as they started being shipped in June of 1914 and in the case of a slow moving body style been on the showroom floor when the Series 4’s came out.There are Series 4’s on HCCA tours and no one seems concerned about it.In Europe and GB,the brass age goes up through Dec.31,1918.
1916 Pierce Arrow B-4 serial number range: 13901-14900.First shipments seem to be Dec.2015.One built in 1915 would have to be a very low number.I believe from the auction site of a few years back that yours is
14727 which is towards the end of this range.There is a good article on F.R.Wood on coachbuilt.com.They did work on a number of expensive cars.
Bill,
When I first got my 1918 48 Series 4 7 Pass. I had a lot of trouble with the throttle in the middle. My foot just wouldn’t fit in that narrow space. We did a little research and found the pedals could be turned outward and open up the space for the throttle by a lot. Now my big foot fits fine and I don’t up my throttle when I put on the brake.
Just worth a look………
Also, it sounds like the car could benefit from a brake adjustment to bring the foot brake (internal expanding shoes) a little higher under braking. A minimum of 0.010 clearance all the way around the shoes works for me.
Nevertheless, at rest the brake pedal was below the height of the clutch pedal, and had been since the car was restored 30 years ago. Greg Long AKA MacGyver modified the linkage (cut some off the end under the floor and rethreaded a greater distance) to bring the brake pedal to the same height as the clutch pedal.
Great story of your first drive, Bill. I just knew early on that you’d be hiking to the gas station! Plan on 4-5 mpg until you develop some better numbers.