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David W. Coco Tuesday, 12-Dec-2017 at 08:01 AM
Great story of the drive!
Wish we were closer, that would be a fun car to put a top on. I have a 1919 top that I’m working on now, in between other jobs.
That said, I’m trying to get out of the trimmer work, I do it as a hobby now that I’m retired, but I’m not getting any of my own work done!
David, I am planning to have a new top and side curtains made, wish you were closer!
The good thing about your car (from a trimmer’s perspective, that is, there are a LOT of other good things about it!) is that, with the lower top, it will fit into a regular height garage. That’s the problem right now with the 1919 top I’m doing, I can’t finish it in my workspace, not enough ceiling height. So, basically, we’ll have the top framework on a jig that replicates the body mounting, I’ll rough out the top pieces, then final fitting will be on the car at another location.
One fun thing about the 1919, the wood bows are covered with leather where they show on the sides of the car. This is wrapped around, with the seam hidden under the screwed-on irons. Earlier cars had leather wrapped sockets, with the seam visible.
You’ll find that the side curtains are just about as expensive as the top. To do them correctly takes a lot of time and detail work, plus the fitting to the car. If you have a set of old side curtains, make sure your trimmer uses them for reference, not pattern, as they can shrink and stretch in funny ways. The side curtains must be fit to the car as they are made…..
Great car, sounds like you’re having a blast with it! And yes, the Pierce Arrow gang is a great group, remember, we’re not just a club, we’re a Society!
Bill: the fuel gauges that Wayne Hancock reproduced will NOT work on your car. Your car uses a pressure-sealed fuel gauge, the needle follows a moving magnet on the underside of the sealed dial of the gauge..
The fuel gauges that Wayne reproduced are for 1925 Series 80 cars, which are not a pressurized fuel tank system.
The outer ring that holds down the glass on your fuel gauge will unscrew.. you might have to wear rubber gloves or leather gloves to get enough grip to get it to loosen. The needle on my 1919 gauge jumps off the pivot pin and lies on the dial about every third or fourth drive down my gravel road..
Greg
Bill,
Following up on Greg’s comment, I don’t know the diameter of your Triumph faceplate, but perhaps it is the same diameter as the one that Wayne reproduced, and if so, maybe he has an extra faceplate and needle.
In addition, I attach a link to another source for the Triumph gas gauge faceplate.
Peter
A small rubber strap wrench works well for loosening the bezel on the fuel gauge.
Bill,
You have the correct guage but it looks like you are missing the needle.These
Triumph guages were used by other cars and no doubt the needles are the same.A needle could be fabricated.
Thanks for the info on my fuel gauge. Will pull the guage with a rubber strap wrench as suggested. I have acquired several cars this year and are building a display building and have a few things on my plate.
I will continue to be active on this Forum, though saving the info to implement as I can get cleared.
Thank you for your kind help and advice.
A watch / clock hand would likely work fine without any fabrication.
So, contact your clock and watchmaker and he will fix you up.
Or, check out a local swap meet or lower-end antiques shop (junk shop, as my Dad called them) and you will probably find plenty of donor watches / clocks for about $5.00 each.
Bill,
As you have gently hinted a few times above, you seem up to your ears in projects, so please excuse our exuberance and just have fun with your “new” 1916 Pierce-Arrow.
BTW, as you already know, the best rule for not running out of gas is to FILL UP every time you go for a long ride.
It works wonderfully well and you rarely need to refer to your gas gauge (working or otherwise).
Peter
A watch / clock hand would likely work fine without any fabrication.
“So, contact your clock and watchmaker and he will fix you up.
Or, check out a local swap meet or lower-end antiques shop (junk shop, as my Dad called them) and you will probably find plenty of donor watches / clocks for about $5.00 each.”
Excellent idea!
“Bill,
BTW, as you already know, the best rule for not running out of gas is to FILL UP every time you go for a long ride.
It works wonderfully well and you rarely need to refer to your gas gauge (working or otherwise).”
PeterBTW, as you already know, the best rule for not running out of gas is to FILL UP every time you go for a long ride.
It works wonderfully well and you rarely need to refer to your gas gauge (working or otherwise)
Peter”
I had quite enough time to think about this while carrying 5 gallons of gas back to the car! Normally I fill a new car while still on the trailer bringing it home, oh well, next time.
Bill,
I looked closely at the photos of this car some years ago when it was for sale on the HCCA website and other places. I also looked it over on the PB Motoring Classic ( and helped push it onto the trailer). I also have a FR Wood and Son bodied Pierce, a 12 48. I have done some research on the body company. I would be happy to discuss further. I am reasonably certain that the body was built in the early twenties. How it ended up on your car, I have no idea.
When I last saw your car the demountable rims were coming loose on the rear wheels. Please make sure they are well secured.
Still a great car.
It is hard to know in some cases when a custom body was mounted.It was not unusual in those days for an expensive car to be fitted with an updated body when the original one had become dated or in the case of one 1917 Pierce Arrow 66 closed body which ended up on a 1937 Packard Twelve chassis as the owner liked the body.There were a number of custom bodies on pre-1921 Pierce Arrows.There were a lot of body changes on Rolls Royces back in the day.
Bill,
I agree. Expensive cars often had several body changes. In the late teens
through the late twenties, styles changed rapidly. A perfectly good car could easily be out of style within a few years. Car designs during this time moved to longer and lower with smoother features. In the earlier brass years we sat on the car as one would with a buckboard. In the mid teens we began to sit in the car more. By the early to mid twenties the body parts began to flow. Tops also changed in this period. FR Wood built great bodies, but they were not way ahead of their time. The design of your body suggests their products in the early twenties. I believe that in my inspection of your car, I noted small changes that were made to accommodate the FR Wood body. If my old age hasn’t altered my memory, it was difficult to see the dash because of the body/seat/steering wheel position.
William D. Scorah and John Crowell Thank you for your input. I always want to know and your comments are good to know opinions about the history of our car. Please let me know anymore. I appreciate that you have made these observations kindly and presented in a gracious manner.
I like the car in many ways. New information does not, in the slightest way diminish my pleasure in the car. With the pedigree built in 1916 and upgraded (possibly, probably) in the 1920s is a great combination to me. I really like the lowered, sporting lines that influenced my purchase.
I will check the wheels all around. I suspect the previous owner tightened then,
John, is there a picture of your FR Body Pierce?
Bill,
Regarding the hands on an old clock, I would try an old pocket watch, as they often have a diameter similar to that of the dial on your Triumph gas gauge, and in spite of the fact that they can be quite elegant, no one wants them these days.
Also, some of them were really cheap when NEW, so today they are almost give-aways.
See an eBay example below.
Peter
Regarding newer coachwork on an older chassis:I have seen a brochure from 1925 printed by Rolls Royce of America where they had for sale completely reconditioned
Sliver Ghosts of 1912-1915 fitted with current Springfield coachwork along with starters and current lighting equipment.These cars came with a full warranty and they looked just like a 1925 model.This way people who did not want to pay the cost of a new car could still have a Rolls Royce.My friend Ray Dietrich told me once that he would fit new coachwork for clients who had purchased a Minerva or large Renault while in Europe.In some cases after weeks in a freighter with salt air and being bounced around,the body would be so loose that the client would have Ray rebody the car.Generally if this work was done when the car was new or nearly new,it tends to be more acceptable as opposed to one doing it in 2017.
Bill,
To add to the discussion about fuel in these Pierce Arrows,I checked the container of oil that has been used to mix with the gasoline.It was recommended to me to use a mixture of Pennzoil outboard motor oil with the gasoline in my C-3.This was noted on the plastic bottle and some of the writing has worn off.It appears to be a ratio of 100 to 1 from what I could tell and also noted as to use 8 fluid ounces of Pennzoil Outboard motor oil to every one gallon of regular gasoline.The notations were written on the bottle in 1976 when regular gasoline was different than what it is today.My car has always done well with this mix but I have not used fuel with ethanol.I also seemed to get pretty gas mileage and a clean running engine leaving a tan deposit on the exhaust pipe.In the context of today’s gasoline more oil might be needed to achieve the same results.It may be by trial and error.Too much oil and a Pierce Arrow will become a great big Trabant.Alao the water pipe to the carburetor needs to be open and the belly pan in place to retain heat.
Bill,
To add to the discussion about fuel in these Pierce Arrows,I checked the container of oil that has been used to mix with the gasoline.It was recommended to me to use a mixture of Pennzoil outboard motor oil with the gasoline in my C-3.This was noted on the plastic bottle and some of the writing has worn off.It appears to be a ratio of 100 to 1 from what I could tell and also noted as to use 8 fluid ounces of Pennzoil Outboard motor oil to every one gallon of regular gasoline.The notations were written on the bottle in 1976 when regular gasoline was different than what it is today.My car has always done well with this mix but I have not used fuel with ethanol.I also seemed to get pretty gas mileage and a clean running engine leaving a tan deposit on the exhaust pipe.In the context of today’s gasoline more oil might be needed to achieve the same results.It may be by trial and error.Too much oil and a Pierce Arrow will become a great big Trabant.Alao the water pipe to the carburetor needs to be open and the belly pan in place to retain heat.
Top cylinder lubrication is not an option for early cars. Much of this was
accomplished in the early days by loose initial clearances and a lack of air
filters. If you’ve ever seen the level of exhaust fumes at the starting line
of an early race you see my point. By around 1920 Marvel Mystery Oil was
introduced to keep upper cylinders clean and healthy. Mid ’20’s came and so
did higher compression and a greater need for MMO. Many auto supplies my way
carry Marvel Mystery Oil in gallon containers. My cars are addicted and get
grouchy when they can’t get theirs.