Anyone with 1934-1935 P-A ?

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Mika,

The biggest problem I’ve fought in water pumps is not the bearings,

but the shaft and the seal.On my 1915 Overland “6” I rebuilt the pump

using stainless steel for the shaft.I know better than tightening the

packing nut too much.250 miles later the soft stainless steel was galled

and the endless drips began.A Model A I owned suffered the “drips”.I finally layed out the big bucks for a modern seal job.One less problem.

My 37′ Studebaker President has a similar pump to a Pierce and will be off to the pump doctor for modern seals.

I know they worked when new and it’s not rocket science,but pumps always

drive me nuts.

Tony Costa

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Mika and Tony,

I’ve had five Pierce and one Paige water pumps re-engineered by our member Jerry Washburn in California–three of those pumps have been in service for 13-14 years without problems. Jerry is a retired Master Machinist and has been a good friend for 35 years. He has done pumps for a number of PAS members. Jerry replaces the bushings with sealed bearings, then machines out the housing to accept modern seals from the Grainger (a major industrial supply dealer in the U.S.) catalog. When he finishes, there is no more packing and the grease cup is strictly decorative–no more water pump grease, and no packing to tighten every so often. He charges about $300 USD (plus shipping) to re-engineer an 8-cylinder pump if there are no complications, such as an eroded impeller. Reproduction impellers are available. Cooling seems to be a recurring issue for most prewar cars, and this process helps a great deal to make your car reliable in that area. You can probably get a similar process accomplished in Finland.

Tony, e-mail me for latest phone numbers and hours for Jerry if you are interested in having him do your Stude pump–by the way, he has a 1928-1/2 President 8 roadster.

George

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Thanks again for the tips! The problem is that I don’t like to send the water pump for repair , in case it get’s lot’s , i’d bet that replacement will be quite hard to find!

Progress so far… 6 bolts removed.. 6 broken..

I cut the water manifold today and I don’t wonder anymore why the bolts are so hard to unscrew.

See the photo. I got 3 cups (visible in photo) rust-dirt-metal-pieces inside the engine..

The bolts are directly in the water and I guess that stuff inside the engine is in the threads..

Now I try to clean the bolts inside the engine and spray KROIL to them after that. Let’s hope it helps.

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Got the new water manifold today. It looks AWESOME! Thanks Dave

Also received Stromberg EE-3 kit and fuel pump repair kit from Then & Now automotive.

Water manifold is painted and the “inner side” is not plated or coated.. I was thinking that maybe I should hot dip galvanize or electrogalvanize it, any thoughts?

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Mika —

I see you are in touch with Dave Murray. He as replacement bows and arrows for archers.

I can endorse Teebays’ recommendation for Jerry Washburn to do your water pump. He redid mine for my 1923 Series 33. It had leaked for years, in spite of having a new shaft, and new packing (several times). Now it doesn;t leak a drop. I don’t think you have to fear the pump getting lost is you send it insured or registered. You have anough work to do yourself, and Washburn will be the last person that works on your water pump.

I am rebuilding almost all of the wood for a 1930 P-A convertible sedan. We couldn’t find good ash stock around here, so we are using soft maple throughout. It is a deslightful wood (called soft only because it is softer than hard maple, which is TOO hard). Takes screws well — fine straight grain, sands to almost a polish. (We aren’t using nails, but the wood never spllits.) I don’s know what woods are available to you, but I enourage you to use the nicest wood you can get — don’t worry about trying to find the same wood that was used originally (the northern white ash).

As you now by now, a good many PAS members are anxious to help you get your car in good shape. When you get your roster, check out the few other Pierce owners in Scandinavia.

Arnold Romberg

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Hi Arnold,

yes I was. He seemed really nice guy. I noticed some time ago Emporium Newsletter ad on website, which had the Arrow/Bow ad , but after I received my car it was gone already.. I didn’t remember the seller, so I will have to dig it up.

It would be nice if the ads would be visible longer.

So, If I replace the Northern White Ash with something similar, that wouldn’t drop the points off from my restoration?

Thanks for the input about water pump. I haven’t found yet anyone who are willing to ship water pump parts to Finland, usually they would like to rebuild the pump. So, maybe I should go with your suggestion…

The next part order will be ignition parts from Special Interest Autos.

Where could I ask those rubber parts for brake booster?

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Hi guys,

sorry for not updating anything for a while.

My daily driver (1988 Ford Country Squire LX STW) broke down (engine overheated and seized?)

and after thinking it for a while I decided to rebuild the 302 V8 engine. The cost here in Finland in local shop is 3000 euros (almost $4000 USD ) .. So that’s why I haven’t had any updates on Pierce.

BUT, I was working with it week ago, only to notice that more bolt broke off from water manifold.

I think I should remove the engine to get a proper space to work with. I need to drill the old bolts off and maybe use heli-coils too, so it would be easier when engine is not in the car.

So, I haven’t had a chance to order the “service bulletins” yet.. but

any tips on engine removal? I think the most work needs to done when removing the engine from transmission?

What should I bolt off from there? I have never taken off engine from manual transmission, only from automatic ones.

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Mika,

Remove the engine and transmission as one unit. It only takes a few bolts to free up the transmission from the rear mount and drive shaft and it’s much easier to deal with separating the engine from the transmission with both out of the car. While you’re at it you’ll also want to check out the freewheel and power brake units.

Be sure to take lots of photos on how the various levers and operating shafts connect to the brake unit because you’ll have trouble putting it all back together without them.

Good luck,

Bill

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Bill,

You may be right.

If I take them both out, I think I need to remove the grille and radiator as well? right?

But not the front fenders?

Is there something I should be aware of when removing the grille?

My main plan was not to take too much parts off from it now, only to do everything it needs to get it driving good.

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Anthony Costa,

can you email me about those headlight parts ?

So, did I got it right, the brake system is mechanical, but is there transmission gear oil in brake booster?

I tried the brake pedal but the brakes are gone. I know that there might be cables that are “rusted” etc, but In that case, the pedal should be quite hard. Anyone any hints, why the brake pedal goes to the floor and nothing happens?

Thanks!

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Hello Mika,

Glad to see your water manifold arrived safely. You can preserve it by simply submerging the back side in shelac, it will last at least another ioo years. I do have bow and arrow sets for your archer and many other parts you may need to bring your Pierce back to its former glory. I do not get to computer very often as there are many projects in pregress around here. Welcome to the PAS, I am sure you are going to love your Pierce. I am attaching a picture of our 1935 12cyl. coupe. We love it!!

Dave Murray

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Mika,

Page down the Message Board a few lines and see the discussion on “Mechanical Power Brakes” started recently by Scott Dwyer. If the car is not moving, the pedal will just go to the floor since with the ‘treadle’ action no braking power is provided from pedal pressure unless the driveshaft is rotating. It’s a great setup, but probably unlike anything you’ve encountered in the past.

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Further to Dave’s comments on the brakes: First, for almost any mechanical-brake car whose parking or ‘hand’ brake operates on the wheel brakes, when the hand brake is applied (‘on’) as when you are parked, you will always have a low pedal–lower than when the hand brake is off.

The 1933-35 mechanical power brakes have a low pedal (with hand brake ‘on’ or off’) when not moving. That’s LOW, not ‘on the floor.’ There are adjustments for pedal height and for the sensitivity of the power assist, and these are covered in several Service Bulletins.

My own experience is that you should lift your foot off the floor and touch the brake pedal near its actuating arm, just like a regular brake pedal–rather than to flex your foot as we do on our accelerator pedals. I think the accelerator-type pedal used as a brake pedal on the 1933-35 cars was principally a gimmick, as I can’t become comfortable using it that way on my 1934.

Mika, first make sure each wheel can turn freely, then check to see if each wheel’s operating mechanism at the backing plate moves while an assistant steps on the brake. You MAY have some rusted brake cables.

I prefer to disconnect the power assist from the front and rear brake rods (transmission vicinity), then adjust each wheel brake individually, then re-connect and go about the other adjustments. Expect some trial and error.

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David,

thanks for the parts and the photo! Looks awesome! Just like the parts you sent !

I haven’t had a chance to install any of those yet, since I’m a little bit stuck in the removal phase…

I ordered some new tools for work with Pierce and my helicoil set has lost on it’s way. Darn.

I also located some more parts and I’m waiting a quote at the moment. Also, some other parts came up as well.

I purchased the PAS bulletins from fellow club member, and there really is lot’s of reading..!!!

At the moment temperature is about 5 fahrenheit in Finland… So it’s COLD to work with Pierce at the moment. We are planning to get a gas heater, but the problem is that it’s so COLD that we can’t do anything (Yes, I think I’m getting too old). This is the coldest winter I can remember!!!

So, I will be updating as soon as I get something really done this time.

Thanks for the tips on brakes.

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I just had to add one more photo for you guys…

I was at the shop today..

Darn, the hood was so heavy that I didn’t want to lift it off, since there was only my friend helping me.. I think we need atleast 4 people for it next time!

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Mika,

Definitely 4 guys to lift the hood, certainly when the car has nice paint on it! Here’s a little trick, though – you can remove the side panel hinge rods, and then the side panels one at a time, to get rid of more than half of the weight, then two guys can do the top part easier. (You can even slide the two top panels apart.)

The rods can be knocked slightly forward with a drift punch on the rear end, then the forward end chucked in an electric drill, and spun while pulling out. A little WD-40 helps.

Cheers,

Bob Jacobsen

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Bob, your hood hinge rod trick is nifty, thanks for posting it. Have you ever replaced that rod with a stainless steel type? Seems like that rod and hinge is a rust haven and perhaps stainless could improve that at a small price.

thanks again-John Wozney

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Hi here is some news about the PIERCE ARROW that i bought from Mika in Finland.The car is running again and oil pressure is ok,the brakes works just fine,my first intention is to drive the car unrestored,i will keep it original,here is a Picture,ps/i would like to just say thanks for all the help i have recieved from a very good PAS.All the best from Jack.

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Hello Jack, your car looks great!! Nice to hear it is on the road and being driven.

Now, we need Mika to find another Pierce to work on so you two can tour together !

Greg Long

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