Back from the Grave

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I hope the Subject line didn’t shock anyone. The reference is to our 1932 Model 54 Brougham Club. Let me explain. A while back (just short of a year ago), after enjoying several short trips with the car all of the sudden it stopped running. Yep, one day I went out to start it up and nothing. Thinking it was the battery I tested it and sure enough, nothing, dead as door nail. So, charging the battery was the next move. But, no luck, the battery would not hold a charge. After purchasing a new battery and installing it I was ready to go to work. Or so I thought. Some was wrong, with the new battery in place still nothing. No starting and further investigation revealed no lights or horn. My thought was the STARTIX has gone bad. I immediately reached out to the PAS membership and Paul Johnson contacted me and we began working through possible solutions, He even offered to send me a replacement STARTIX. Upon our inspection we came to realize the STARTIX was not the problem and that possible shorts in wires could be the problem. After months (couple hours a day when I had some free time) I could not locate any wiring issues other than a bunch of wires were exposed and could possibly causing shorts. Still no luck in getting it started. I thanked Paul and told him I was just going to have to keep tracing wires and trying to sort things out. Well, I dropped the ball, got side tracked and the car sat for a good while longer until one day I just decided to get back on tryng to get this thing fixed. I sent another note out, this time to Robert Brown who was very helpful in getting me to David Coco and Greg Long. The three of them provided me with a plethora of information based on their knowledge of the Pierce. I printed off all they had provided me and into the garage I went. With a friend we explored and probed and read and tested out different options until finally, SHAZAM! we where able to get things back together again and the car started. Here I what we found… Several cracked and damaged wires. A bad current limiter, a loose connection on the starter switch, a broken wire on the ammeter and a wire on the STARTIX that was on the wrong terminal. Thank you, Thank you, Thank you to Greg, David and Robert for their patience and help. Since getting the problem resolved I have taken the car out three times on short drives and it is running better than it has run in a long, long time. For anyone is new to these old cars I recommend seeking out those who know. Read the materials. Read the owners manual. Touch and feel the car and all the wires, control devices and learn all you can. These vehicles are gems and we really need to preserve their legacy. If anyone would like greater details of my quest to resurrect this car please feel free to drop me an email [email protected].

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Great stuff, thanks for posting this info Donald!

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I have replaced the wiring harness in any old car that I have owned older than 1950. Invariably, when replacing the harnesses in my 1936, or 1931, there have been bare wires in the old harness. The 1931 had bx conduits, and I found bare wires on steel! Someone told me that after 1950 there was rubber under the cloth outer layer.

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The next thing that we have to worry about is eco-friendly wiring coating.

Seems that Toyota, for one, started using wiring that’s covered with a soy-based material, instead of petroleum based. Mice and rats love the stuff.

I believe most old car repro wiring now available is cloth covered over a plastic/petroleum based coating. Hopefully they won’t change.

http://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/oakland/2018/05/07/rats-rodents-cars-vehicles/578398002/

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David,

I know that it is a cheesy comment, but I believe that engine compartment mousetraps were a PAMCC factory option.

Peter

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Hello Don.

I’m very happy to read that you sorted through your car’s electrical problems.

I have a few questions. You wrote that the the current limiter was bad. Could you elaborate please? I’ve tested many current limiters, and the only thing that I ever found was that the two electrical contacts were dirty or corroded, and once cleaned, the current limiter did conduct electricity.

What did you find with your car’s current limiter ?

The broken wire at your Ammeter: was this a broken, and hanging loose wire? So it was not connected electrically or mechanically any more ?

Greg Long

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Wiring terminology, and wiring issues in our Pierce Arrow cars [and other cars of the era]

For anyone and everyone reading this: a quick note on wiring and insulation: a crack or bare spot on a wire does not in anyway make the wire fail at conducting electricity, the wire is not bad. The function of insulation on wiring is to keep anything from touching the outside a wire to actually make contact with the electricity- conducting wire itself..

When a wire has something touch it’s conductor before the conductor reaches it’s intended destination, this causes the electricity to take a shorter route back to the source of the current: the battery.. This is the origin of the term ‘a short’.

A broken wire, a loose connection etc is NOT a ‘short’. A short is always dangerous, since the electricity is NOT going were it was intended, and often creates heat, fires, arcing or other damage.

However, I do not intend to imply that a wire with cracked insulation, loose connections or frayed insulation is ‘OK’ to ignore, or to leave as is.. Cracked insulation is an indication that the insulation is old, became rigid instead of remaining flexible, and vibration or flexing caused the hardened insulation to crack, and often crack and flake off in chunks.. But the wire is still ‘good’, that is; the wire is still conducting electricity.

Any wires found with hardened, cracking, or shedding insulation should either be replaced, or the bare conductor wrapped in electrical tape, shrink-tubing, or even have a piece of small rubber tubing slid over the conductor.

The ‘sneaky’ problem is the weak or loose connector at the end of the wire. Most wiring has the connector crimped on the end of the wire, providing not only an electrical connection, but a mechanical connection with a method of connecting the wire to the device it is supplying electricity to. The crimped connections eventually loosen when vibration and flexing of the copper wire eventually cause the pressure of the ‘crimp’ to become loose.

A loose connection will often ‘LOOK’ like a good connection: mechanically sound, and conducting electricity. But often the connection is NOT conducting current, and is only marginally holding the wire mechanically to the intended device. So a gently ‘wiggle’ of each wire and a close look at the wire at the crimp connection is needed to see if the connector’s crimp is still sound..

In critical locations, crimped on wire connectors should be soldered to the wire. Soldering makes for a near-perfect electrical connection, and a much more sound mechanical connection.

Our Pierce Arrow cars were wired with the ‘then’ standard methods: the wires behind the instrument panel often were not supported in the middle, between the two ends of the wire.. On wires only going a short-distance between devices, generally bracing or added support is not needed..

But often there are several wires that are long enough that the steady bouncing and vibration from the vehicle traveling down the road will constantly flex the wire, put strain on the connectors, and eventually cause connections to become loose, and eventually fail.

The cars with a current limiter mounted on the inside of the firewall, have a wire about 20″-24″ long between the current limiter and the ammeter or to the ignition switch on the steering column. This wire is often rarely supported in the middle, and it is often the cause of intermittent problems and eventually causes the car to not start or to have many electrical issues.

Greg Long

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Great write up, Greg.

Maybe this would be a good article topic for a future PAS Service Bulletin?

Wiring is often ignored and misunderstood by a lot of car enthusiasts.

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Thanks Craig. I’ll check with Arnold and David to see if they want another article.

Greg Long

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We most certainly do…..

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Adding to Greg’s great comments I’ll add one more thing that is often overlooked on older vehicles. Many cars use the chassis and body for the ground instead of home run ground wires. When new this was fine but with age corrosion builds up where the metal to metal joints are on the frame, between the rivets, where the ground cable attaches to the frame, etc. Each little bit of corrosion adds to the resistance and causes dim lights, slow blinkers, horns that sound like a sick duck and and engine that barely turns over. Adding an additional ground direct to the starter can make a big difference in cranking speed. Sanding to bare metal where the cables attach is another big one. Just another thing to look for.

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Excellent point Jim.

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All electrical systems work great until you let the smoke out.

Once the smoke escapes it’s over.

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Greg, got caught up with all the excitement of being able to drive the car again followed by a 2 week vacation, I hadn’t taken time to revisit the PAS site. The best I can tell when I put 6 volts to the limiter on the work bench, I can not get the contacts to release. I have replaced the limiter wit a 30 amp fuse and things seem to be fine for now. I am hoping to revisit the limiter (maybe even reinstall) just to see if it responds different when mounted tot he frame of the car. As for the wire on the Ammeter. It came off the mounting screw. I think I may have pulled it off during my initial search months before actually trying to track down the problem

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