Bracket headlights and New York (City?) laws

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Charles,

Glad to hear you are thrilled by your Series 36. I’d love to see some photos. I tried to find the ones you mentioned on the AACA forum and was unsuccessful. If you are trying to post them here, make sure that they are not too big or they won’t go. Welcome to PAS from a fellow Series 36 (with fender headlights) owner.

Dave

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I do not how to get the pictures smaller. If you go on the AACA- Forums and scrool down to 1927 Pierce Arrow Model 36. Hupp 36 is me.

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After a little more looking, I found them. A great looking car. Have fun with it.

Dave

http://forums.aaca.org/topic/269013-1927-pierce-arrow-model-36-limo/

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Charles,

We have a lot in common. I have a Model 36 P.A. and a ’35 and ’34 Hupp.

Tony

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Please, make no mistake, this thread being started IN NO WAY is criticizing bracket headlights.

It’s still a Pierce Arrow, and I’d never criticize one of those (oh, maybe comment on color or the red velvet interior, but not serious criticism).

My intent was to try to prove the headlight story true, but in absence of proof, then the obverse is proved by default.

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I have seen pictures of cars besides Pierce Arrow that had fender headlights around 1914-1915.One was a cycle car in the USA and the other was a French car.A special Marmon in 1932 had fender headlights.The advent

of durable ductile tungsten filament light bulbs in late 1910 opened the door to electric headlamps on vehicles and of course many headlamp mounting options.The Briscoe in 1914-1915 had its had single headlight

in the top of the radiator as did the Garford in 1913.

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The Marmon HCM with the fender mounted headlights was a Prototype that never made it to production.

Marmon would have been sued by the PAMCC for patent infringement if the HCM made it to production.

http://www.rmsothebys.com/en/auctions/AM15/Amelia-Island/lots/r203-1932-marmon-hcm-v-12-prototype/181645

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I’ve often thought that P/A offered the bracketed lights for customers who didn’t care for the fender mounted headlights.

I would think that most of us P/A fans really like the fender lamps, but they may have been too different for customers who were used to the “traditional”” look of cars in the era.

Perhaps the real reason bracketed headlights were offered was to sell cars!”

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Long ago, probably in the 1980’s, there was an AACA tour in the area of my hometown of Alexandria, Louisiana.

I was on the tour with my Pierce, as was the late Ron Barnett. I was talking to Ron, and somehow the subject of old fire trucks came up. I mentioned to him that there was a very old fire truck about two miles from where we stood, so old, in fact, that the ladder trailer had originally been pulled by horses. It was converted to a power unit with the addition of a huge chain driven truck. There was nothing on that fire truck that one person could pick up by himself.

So, Ron asked if we could go see it. Sure, let’s hop in the Pierce.

Ron sat in the passenger seat, looked out across the hood, and said “You know, I never have liked the look of those fender headlights, but they don’t look bad from inside the car…..”

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Peter,

You are amazing. Where did you find this Sotheby article that I enjoyed so

much? I loved the part that noted an emotional reuniting of Walter Dorwin

Teague Jr. with the HCM which he designed, taking place at the 2014 Pebble

Beach Concours. The fact that he had died in 2004, escaped the knowledgeable

writer. I was at the Concours the HCM and he attended. I got to talk with him

for a half an hour. He told over and over the injustice of doing all the

design work and his Father taking all the credit. What other Concours in the

world can a nobody walk up to a 90 + year-old historical figure, sitting in

the most advanced car design of the thirties, and get his undivided attention

??

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Charles, that is one beautiful car you are the caretaker for.

And as you found out, nothing drives like a Pierce does.

Looking at the interior pictures you posted, do you know if the interior handles are original?

They look an awful lot like the handles on my very original ’29 EDL.

I will have to take my laptop out to the garage and compare the handles in your pictures with mine.

Enjoy that lovely car while you’re taking care of it.

She’s worth every minute spent on her.

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Terry,

I guess if you wanted to play down the concept that “there is no mistaking a Pierce-Arrow,” you bought one with bracket lights.

Peter

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Tony,

I have know about that Marmon HCM or a number of years and merely needed to roust the recollection from my aging brain. Regardless, thank you.

According to the Sotheby article, Walter Dorwin Teague Jr. designed that car as “the way a car should look,” so I guess that Pierce-Arrow got the fender mounted headlight design correct according to WDT, Jr.

P-A cars are wonderful in their design and when shown always draw a TON of admirers.

Just as do YOUR assortment of cars, Tony.

Cheers,

Peter

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Craig, I do not know abut the door handles, that is the way we bought the car. I do know that they and all the metal in the rear compartment are 14 Karat gold plated. When I take the car to a show, I never leave it without a member of our club standing in my place. There is no greater pleasure than opening the rear door and showing it to a lady. Thank you Chuck M

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Charles, that’s a beautiful car, very tastefully done. Here are a couple of pictures since you’re having a problem posting them.

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And the interior..

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Thank you , David

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So, has it been decided ? There is nothing to the myth that New York made it illegal to have fender lights.

Seems to me we need to work harder to get the truth out there….

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It is ironic that I just posted a video this morning of Dave Stephens and his 1928 P-A at the auto show on the Facebook page and what does he talk about?…you guessed it.. fender headlamps and NYC….SMH…lol…Oh well, it seems it is one of those myths that just won’t die…

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Well, at least Dave added at the end of the story that the ban on fender headlights was “folklore”, which I’m starting to think is the real truth.

He also said his Pierce had an “ash frame”, but didn’t make it clear that it was the body that was framed in ash and covered with a metal skin…

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