Building my Pierce Arrow shop

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I am building my shop and would like to ask you guys what would be the best car lift or pit to put in. My back and neck don’t do creepers well anymore. Just turned 64 and retired. The main shop will be 30×40 with a. Covered back area for sand blasting etc . It’s going to be a pole barn with 4 inch thick cement floor. Now is the time to put in what will work best for our big Pierce arrows. What are your suggestions. Thanks Doug Vogel

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Sure you will gets lots of conflicting opinions on this! As you can see from my post a couple messages down I have a Backyard Buddy. It is the extra height, extra length version so that I can put the 70″ high Packard above the 70″ high Pierce-Arrow. I am pretty happy with it, but it isn’t foolproof. When I first started shopping I looked at some of the cheap imports and they were reasonably frightening. I tried to imagine being under the lift when an earthquake hits – not paranoid or anything! Are you thinking 4-post or 2 post? My 4 post sometimes is inconvenient for working on stuff, the ramps do get in the way at times, but I need it for storing an additional car as well. No matter, it is a huge help and beats by a long ways crawling around under jack stands. As you can see from my post, the lift has some definite advantages over a pit for things like pulling bodies off frames.

There are two basic philosophies, the solidly enclosed square tube around a totally enclosed tube column like Backyard Buddy, or the open channel. Open channel bugged me because if things get to rocking the channel can flex and open a bit and the locking ratchets can slip. This is what can happen on the cheap and flimsy ones. If I were to design and build a lift I would use the enclosed column concept from a basic structural integrity standpoint. What I also liked about the BYB was when the locks are in place they are totally trapped in a hole like an overbuilt jackstand.

Having said that probably the best is Bend Pak. It may have the open channel design but it is totally certified for commercial use, and hard to argue with thousands in everyday use in shops. They get by with the open channel design by making it beefy enough to allay any problems from channel flexing. If I remember right, the lift cables are totally enclosed in the tubes rather than exposed as on a BYB, which is a nice feature.

There was one more thing that besides price/quality that led me to BYB, it is built basically across the street from where the first Packards were built in 1899. Maybe that’s a reason for true Pierce buffs to choose something else! Good luck, and enjoy your shop when it is done! Jim

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James hit the nail on the head. My father-in-law and I have been looking at these for 10 years, and watched the progression of the designs. I had a ’66 Mustang roll on me using cheap ramps and jack stands, I would NEVER compromise on quality again. Buy the better unit or buy a lot of life insurance.

I built a 30 by 44 garage at our River house on the Northern Neck of Virginia 10 years ago with the intent to retire there and restore cars. Hopefully some day… Make the garage height at least 12 feet 6 inches to cover for the Packard and the Pierce. In designing the slab, I made sure there was a slight but positive slope from the back wall to the doors using 5 inches of 3500 to 4000 lb concrete with both wire mesh and fiberglass strands in the concrete. I then made an educated guess (this was 2003) as to where the posts would be (I assumed a two post lift then), and dug two holes approximately a yard square. Jak, for you that is a meter ! I then filled the hole with a lattice of #4 (half inch) rebar, and left four pieces sticking up through the top, with the top of the concrete at the bottom of the final grade of the slab. I then used 2 by 4’s as a perimeter, and poured the entire garage slab, leaving the lift base 4 inches low. The garage now has the wood around the perimeter with a plywood cover until the lift is installed. The lift manufacturer can provide a drawing showing the exact locations for the lift posts and the bolt holes. When you order the lift, you construct a metal plate with holes to accommodate the four rebars with studs (stainless is best) set to accommodate the posts, weld the plate to the rebar, fill the area flush with concrete to the height of the existing floor, and wait for the lift delivery. Concrete needs at least a week, and preferably longer to cure. The lift should fit perfectly on a very sound foundation for the cost of a couple of yards of concrete and some steel.

One thing we all seem to forget is the power requirements for these lifts. I would provide for a circuit large enough (and with the correct voltage class) to accommodate the largest lift you will need. You can use larger capacity wire than you need, not smaller. If your code allows, add a floor drain so you can wash salt off cars in the winter.

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I have two 4-post drive on lifts from Greg Smith Equipment Sales. I’ve had them since 1998. They are well built and strong. They cost about 1/2 that of the high priced similar lifts. I was at Auburn Indiana at one of the Labor day Kruse Auctions, I was able to compare 4 different lifts. The only real difference was the price.

I see nothing to fear from this less expensive lift.

I also have a 2-post lift for most jobs. I do not like putting a vintage car on a frame lift hoist. the running boards are low, requiring blocks on the lift pads, and the flexing of the older cars will surprise you.

Since I have hot water heating in my concrete floor, I took a lot of photos of the floor for tube location. For the mounting pad areas under the two-post lift posts i have 6″ concrete and extra rebar.

Best of luck,

Greg Long.

Pits are noting but dangerous. most insurance companies will not insure your home or garage if it has a pit. To many people have died in a pit from a fire. It’s easy to get trapped in a pit by a fire or falling parts.

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Talk to the guy that is pouring the concrete floor for you.

If you are adding a lift that will support 2 cars in 2 places on the slab, in one or 2 concentrated locations, you might consider making the floor slab 6″ (maybe 8″”) with ample reinforcement of wire mesh and/or rebar. Once your floor is poured you can’t make it any thicker. It’s really minimal cost at this stage. I also added a couple of 2″” pipe posts at the back so you can pull cars in with a come-a-long (beats pushing from behind).”

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My four post lift is free-standing and with no special concrete reinforcement and no problem to date. Until I re-started my Pierce restoration it usually had one of my two 4500 lb Chryslers sitting on it 6ft up. The BYB is not attached to the floor, it would cause problems if it was. It just plugs into a 115V 20 amp plug with no special wiring and no problems to date. It has an option for big castors so that you can roll the complete lift with a car on it (in lowered position) to another area of the shop. I bought the option but haven’t used it so far but I might if I get another lift and it ends up being a forest of poles in my garage.

The idea for posts sunk in the concrete you can attach a winch to haul cars into the shop is something I had wished I had done. In my pics in the previous messages you can see I attached a winch to the front of the lift, but a purpose built winch attachment would have been better. Getting even a stripped down Pierce up the ramps isn’t trivial.

Jim

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Skinned Knuckles had a series of articles about building the ‘Ultimate’ shop. I think these were published in the late ’80’s. In those articles there were suggestions for putting in chain-pockets in the floor so as Jim mentioned above, you could hook a winch to the floor and move around dead vehicles or heavy equipment.

My ‘Direct Lift’ from Greg Smith Equipment came with the HD casters. I have several times used them to put a car on the lift, then roll the lift into a corner, put the car up, and park another under it, or roll tool boxes and work benches under the car to free up floor space. The casters work surprisingly well, the most important thing is to have a CLEAN floor to roll on. Even a BB-sized rock or piece of metal will be difficult to roll the steel wheels over. With a clean floor, rolling a 5000# car is easy with two people, or one person can move it one end at a time.

I thought about a heavier lift, but am glad I bought what I have. For 99 percent of my use, the car rarely goes up and down more than a few times a day. The lift is not bolted to the floor, and it does not move, walk, twist or in anyway seem insecure.

If I were to buy again, I see that the same lift is offered with a higher maximum height. This would be nice for storage, as many of out Pierce cars have tall roofs or tall windshield heights. A few extra inches would make walking under the lift easier.

Greg Long

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If I might join in. I built my PA + others Garage last summer. Pole/Post Vertical support and it ended up 40×72 with 12 foot ceiling and long peaked roof. No windows (for security) and large exhaust fans in the 2 eaves. Added a “Self-Call in” type Security system for all openings with motion detectors when I’m not in it-like on my home. It is basically 6 12 foot wide bays by 40 deep for 2 cars in each bay. I went with oversize garage doors, 9′ H by 10′ wide. PAs are still fun to drive in. One bay has the rafters/joists in a “Cathedral” approach to allow car lifting way beyond the 12 feet, more like 18 in the center. My local contractor also “shaved” the edge of each garage entrance during the pour about 15-20 degrees so that the slope of the concrete edge from the outside of the garage door to the edge of the concrete pad slopes down to allow water to drain away from the garage door. We get a lot of rain in Seattle. I went with the commercial “continuous” guttering system (a drain spout on each of the 4 corners) since my roof is rather large. My next item is getting the lift put in…still deciding on the brand/type but leaning towards BendPak. Garage seemed big during construction, but much smaller as it is filling up! Good Luck Doug

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Thanks so much for all your great suggestions. Greg, which lift from Greg smith would you recommend, I was thinking the 8000# with extra height and longer. I will put in the chain pockets and a ten inch Ibeam to pull engines. All your suggestions are greatly appreciated. Thanks Doug Vogel

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