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Greg,
I agree with you about the Diesel. We were able to tow our 1925 Pierce Arrow back from Tucson, AZ to Pismo Beach in our enclosed Trailer with a spare engine and rear end without missing a beat. I had a Suburban with a 454 up until 2005 when I decided it could not do the jobs that I wanted it to do. We bought a new 2005 Chevy Duramax when the dealers were having their employee pricing and I have never regretted it. We will keep our Truck for the rest of my days on God’s Green Earth. We are very happy with our set up as far as the Truck and Trailer go.
We did install an electric wench on the inside front of our V nose Featherlite to make it easier to load.
The only thing that would be nicer on my Trailer is if it were 7′ feet tall. With the 22″ rims I do have to let the air out of my 1925 Pierce Arrow Series 80 when I load and unload. I also stood on the running boards with another guy to make sure it would clear.
You talk about fitting like a Glove that would be an understatement.
Take care,
Ken
Hi Ken, I have thought about how to lower you car to get it into your trailer. I have not crawled under one of my Series 80’s to look to be sure, but I think some form of a clamp could be made that would go over the frame and then drop down to go under the axle tube. If designed right, I think you could crank down the frame and body at least 4″. I think you can get about 2″ drop by letting air out of the tires, and maybe another inch from standing on the running boards ?
I have an idea that might work, using the ratchet straps. I’ll have to see if it will pull down the bocy 3 or 4 inches.
I’ll see if I can draw up a sketch and post it as a photo. Maybe tomorrow.
Greg Long
Hi Greg,
You sure are thinking. I have not thought of doing it that way. You are right on the measurements. I figured 2 inches when letting the air out and at least 1 more inch when standing on the running boards. It is only the very back top of the car that I need to worry about. It would save me that hassle of having of letting the air out and then airing it back up for the trip.
I have a friend with a hoist and we will put it on the hoist on Thursday to take a look. I will post pictures of what I find hopefully Friday.
You don’t need to go to that much work.
Ken Arritt
Hi Ken, what I visualize is using a 8′ or 10′ tie-down strap with the ratchet tensioning system. Fasten one strap end to the frame one side, bring the strap down and under the leaf spring, then do the same with the other end of the strap. with the ratchet between the springs on the horizon stretch of strap, when the ratchet is tightened, the straps will pull the frame and springs together, lowering the body.
I think some form of roller or round guard must be put on the leaf springs. Anything to reduce friction and the sharp edge of the leaf springs. I think something simple might work ok. I think a piece of 3″ diameter Schedule40 PVC plumbing tubing, about 6-8″ long with a 2″ or so piece cut out of the side, making an elongated ‘C’. This piece of tubing could be slipped on the leaf spring near the rear of the spring where it is thinner, then the tube slid forward to the thicker portion of the spring stack, right behind the rear axle.
If this does work well, then I thing a steel channel could be made to slip on the side of the springs and a heavy strength roller set up to hold the strap off the spring and to greatly reduce friction.
I think the wood sill for the body is resting right on the chassis or frame, so a bolt may need to installed to hook the hook of the strap on. I’ll have to look and see what will work.
Take care,
Greg Long
Greg, I agree with you that diesel is a great option for towing, and of course the torque is as you say, at much lower rpms than for a gasoline engine.
For personal reasons, I’ll stick with the gasoline engine, there are certain aspects of running a diesel that don’t appeal to me, my loss I’m sure, but I’m too old now to change my mind! (or rather, I’m old enough now that I don’t HAVE to change my mind!)
Hello Greg,
I like your idea. I will have to check and see what it looks like when we get it in the air on Thursday. My Leaf Springs appear to be wrapped in Leather in the rear. When we get it in the air I will take pictures and email them to you or post here.
Have a Great Day.
Ken Arritt
Hi David, if I could get the same low rpm torque from a gasser, I’d love to avoid the stink, noise and expense of the diesel engines. But I’ve towed across the country several times, and for me, I’ll stay with diesel power.
A gas engine is also easier and less expensive to overhaul or do major maintenance on. But, I’m not sure with today’s complicated fuel injection systems, if the gas engines are any less complicated on the exterior than the diesel engines.
When I open the hood on most gas powered cars built since the late ’80’s, the mess of emissions controls makes the idea of even changing the spark plugs something to consider having someone else do for me.
I think I’m spoiled by looking under the hood on our Pierce Arrows.
Greg Long
Hi Peter,
You are right about it being aluminum sheeting and studs. Everything here in
California costs an arm and a leg. It would be great if I could just raise the
rear of it a couple of inches or enlarge the doorway. Then it would clear. I might
be able to undo the spring system for the door and manually raise and lower the
rear door. That is the only thing hanging me up. Now you have me thinking.
Thank you for the input.
Ken Arritt
Do not pull that spring system alone. You will be amazed how much torsion that spring assembly has. Besides, you would certainly invalidate any warranty that may be in force. Dr. Peter is right, it would be worth getting a quote from a shop or a Featherlite dealer. While you are at it, get some lights installed in places that make sense for your car. You will be glad you did.
Bob,
Thank you for the advice. I know the that there is a lot of torsion in the Spring Assembly. Thank you for reminding me. I did get the car up on a lift today. I will post a few pictures in a couple of days. Just about every shackle has a leather boot, pretty impressive. I fill very fortunate to have acquired this Pierce.
Take care,
Ken
Hello Ken. I looked under a Series 80 today, and I think the strap pull-down idea might work. If it works, and would cost less that $50 to two axle straps and an 8′ ratcheting tie-down strap.
PW: I do not think of it as ‘all this BS’, that ‘s easy to say when it’s not your money being spent. To attempt to find a solution to a problem instead of just throwing money at it seems to be worth some investigation and effort. If it works, great, if it doesn’t, fine, at least it was tried.
The body sill plates of the Series 80 do rest on and conforms to the shape and curves of the frame. However there are stacks of woven, rubberized shims or spacers leaving a gap between the top of the frame, and The bottom of the wood sill plate. On the car I looked at, the gap was wide enough to slide an axle-strap through, this would allow you to have axle straps over the frame on each side, then hook a ratcheting strap’s hooks to the axle straps. The ratcheting straps should be routed over the outside of the leaf springs, then toward the differential housing in the center of the axle. Then, by tightening the ratcheting strap, it will winch the frame down toward the springs. This may work exceptionally well, or it may not work at all. But spending some time trying it costs nothing, and may save you a ton of $$ for trailer modifications.
Greg Long
Hello Bob and Peter,
Here is a picture of the bottom of my Series 80. The shackles and most all the linkage has leather lasing. I will try to show you what I am referring to in the picture, Greg. I don’t think the pulley system will work with my vehicle without undoing the covers. I have decided not to modify the trailer by raising the roof or removing the spring off the rear door. I do like the idea of placing more lights in the trailer. I may just continue to let the air out of the tires and stand on the rear of the Pierce to fit it in. I do have a wench with a long remote in the trailer.
Thank you for all the help everyone.
Sincerely,
Ken Arritt
Greg,
How about inventing/developing something along the line of a coil spring compressor that can be operated using an 18 volt drill or impact wrench that pulls down the axle between the axle and the frame somewhere? Clearly, this would require two units, one on each side of the pumpkin, but if Ken only needs a couple of inches, this might be the easiest and more importantly the safest way to anchor the rear down. You could even fashion something so it could be installed and then driven into the trailer, albeit without any spring action. As long as the ramps allowed enough clearance to the rear bumper, likely the low point of the rear of the car, it should work. I am thinking of a gearing system akin to a pipe wrench, a power window gear in a ’60’s car, etc. only stronger. The other analogy would be to use some sort of a hydraulic system akin to a port-a-power like was used to straighten frames years ago.
Thoughts? David Coco, you are a mechanical engineer, does this make sense?
Hello Bob,
I sure like your idea of hooking up a portable drill to a ratchet system that
would make it very quick. It would be great if it were that simple. I will post a
picture of the pumpkin for a look of the way mine sits.
Ken
Well, Bob, another friend of mine recently went on a rant about how engineers are messing up the world by designing unnecessary and silly things, just to do something different, so that would seem to rule out any common sense I’d bring to this discussion.
I notice a support bar going across what appears to be the inside of the frame, with half moon cut outs, directly in front of, and supporting, the gas tank.
If one went to the outermost cut out, and ran a ratchet strap from that to the axle tube, couldn’t you pull the frame/body down a few inches?
The only concern would be using too big a strap, then you might lift the axle off the ground instead of lowering the body. See, I had to put in a silly engineering comment…..
My thoughts were to put the straps and ratchet strap behind the rear axle, so they would be easier to access. Just like we have to slide under the fuel tank and rear of the car to put axle straps over the rear axle when we tie down our cars in the trailer. There is no driveshaft or torque arm on the rear of the axle.
Bob, I think a coil spring compressor type of jack screw would work well, and might be made to pull on the axle tube itself, instead of risking any damage to the wonderful original leather laced spring gators on Ken’s car. Great Idea !
When I get back home from the winter board meetings in Palo Alto Ca. I’ll look at my spring compressor set and see if it could be done..
Greg Long
Hello Everyone,
So far I am with you until there is an easier method. A screw driver to let the
Air out and my Costco portable charger with compressor is where I am at so far.
Yes it takes me another 15 minutes to load and 15 minutes to unload but it did work.
If a ratchet system were created I would be willing to give it a shot as long as
it doesn’t affect the originality of the car. The car now has 15,383 original miles. I would like to keep it as clean as possible and original. If you hear of anyone that is looking for a supper clean 80 Sedan I am willing to trade up to a Runabout.
I must say that everyone is working overtime to help my situation, it is much appreciated. Here is a picture of the rear end where you are talking of strapping.
Have a Great Day.
Sincerely,
Ken
I never realized the back of the rear axle had “Pierce” on it….down where no one would see it but the mechanic, and he’d KNOW what he was working on!!
Hi David,
Even the front axle has Pierce Arrow on it. It is surprising how many parts have
Pierce Arrow on them. They were pretty proud of what they made. The sure weight
alone on the parts would give you a pretty good indication that it is a Pierce
Arrow part.
Ken
Admit it, David. As engineers our most common answer to everything is “It depends”. My thought was to use the axle tube on the sprung weight side, and the half moon openings on the frame side. The issue and question for the mechanical engineers is how this could affect the life of the springs. Forget they are 90 years old, and over-engineered by Pierce engineers. If kept in this compressed state long term, could it affect the ride height going forward? I hate to admit a Doctor may have a more logical, or heaven forbid, a more correct answer than an engineer, but…
Ken,
When you order the new trailer, add the extra lights. As soon as you order it, you will get a great deal on a runabout. My friend Murphy just called and told me it would happen .