Charging system

[Author nameAuthor names are only available to PAS members.]

Ok i need some help with the charging system my amp meter shows discharge all the time its running and more with head lamps on. so i take a meter and go from engine to the post on the starter i get 6.3 If i go from the box(generator cut out?) on the generator to the engine block i get 50.4 so is the cut bad?

[Author nameAuthor names are only available to PAS members.]

No it seems the car does not charge

[Author nameAuthor names are only available to PAS members.]

I’m gonna guess that the voltage you measured was 5.4 not 50.4.

Check the brushes on the generator to make sure that they are making contact with the commutator.

Was the generator normal at some time and just recently stopped charging?

Bill

[Author nameAuthor names are only available to PAS members.]

50.4 volts DC about 1.23 volts ac (a little ripple) at generator but never above battery voltage on other side of cutout relay

[Author nameAuthor names are only available to PAS members.]

Sounds like a non-functioning cut-out. The battery voltage should rise to around 7 if the cutout is working.

50 volts at the generator means there is no load connection to the battery, and you could damage the generator (and on cars with a Startix, blow the upper solenoid on the Startix – learned the hard way, then put a fuse in the wire to the Startix “gen”” terminal.)”

[Author nameAuthor names are only available to PAS members.]

Do what you can to clean all the contacts in and around the generator and the cut-out, especially the grounds. If you got that much voltage, it is sounding like an open field circuit condition like you would see on a 50’s generator system.

[Author nameAuthor names are only available to PAS members.]

Hello Eric. pop the cover off the cutout relay, push down on the point contacts at the top of the relay. Slide or wiggle the points against each other to make sure of a good contact. Sometimes the points corrode and even with the relay working, pulling the points together, there is no electrical contact made.

With the points closed, increase the engine rpm, with your voltmeter on the battery side of the cut-out. You should have battery voltage then it should increase to something more than ~7volts. not more than 8.5v.

If your cut out relay will not pull the points together when the rpm is increased, then if it is not a poor connection, then the cut out is bad.

Greg Long

[Author nameAuthor names are only available to PAS members.]

Greg it is a small sealed unit about 1X1X2

anybody have a part number for what should be on it?

[Author nameAuthor names are only available to PAS members.]

The Delco cutouts used through mid-1934 (when Pierce switched to Owen-Dyneto generators) originally had 266P and 265B part numbers, which were superseded in the late 1930s by the newly-standardized 7-digit Delco part number 1867781, easily found NOS on eBay by using “Delco 1867781″” as your search criteria.

That number even fits 1939 Chevrolet Standard (with 3-brush generator) and some Mercury outboard motors. Just use that “”new”” 7-digit part number.”

[Author nameAuthor names are only available to PAS members.]

Delco equipment were used through 1935. My 1935 which is original has Delco equipment.

[Author nameAuthor names are only available to PAS members.]

Paul, the Bernie Weis recension tables indicate that the change from Delco to Owen-Dyneto occurred with 1934 8-cyl engine number 305436 and 12-cyl engine number 400234. The source cited by Bernie for each is Anson’s note 18-9 dated 5/7/1934. I do not doubt that some cars built after those numbers/dates (such as yours) may well have been equipped with Delco starters and generators. Does yours have the conventional single-stage cutout as on earlier cars–or the two-stage (square box) as commonly found on the Dyneto?

For others, it’s MUCH easier –and cheaper!–to find a single-stage cutout than the two-stage….

[Author nameAuthor names are only available to PAS members.]

The Pierce-Arrow Wiring and Tune-Up Guide has two sections for Model 845 Early and Late (pages 73 to 77). The Early section lists Delco ignition and Owens starter and generator equipment. The Late section list only Delco equipment. My 845 is a late car and has only Delco equipment.

[Author nameAuthor names are only available to PAS members.]

For Judging Standards purposes, may we agree that EITHER Delco or Dyneto starter and generator equipment is correct for 1934-35 cars? The PAS (not “Pierce-Arrow”) Wiring and Tuneup Guide consists of pages copied from National Service Data (NSD- aftermarket) manuals, and both are derivative (i.e., secondary) sources, whereas the Anson notes are those of a P-A engineer and thus a primary source. Notwithstanding those notes, it seems clear that for whatever reasons a number of 1934-35 cars built after the Anson dates and engine numbers left the factory with Delco equipment.

However, I suggest that both units (starter and generator) on any given car should be of the same make.

Pierce continued to use Delco *ignition* through the end. The only Dyneto equipment consisted of starters and generators.

[Author nameAuthor names are only available to PAS members.]

Ordered one off ebay for 12 bucks car charges!

Thank you all

[Author nameAuthor names are only available to PAS members.]

For about 30 miles

[Author nameAuthor names are only available to PAS members.]

Eric, your 1929 generator should have a voltage limiter, when the voltage in the battery reaches 7.2 volts it will stop charging for a time, with no lights on this could be a while. If you keep the battery on a tender, it wont take long to get to 7.2 volts. Turn on the headlights and see if it starts charging again. Or, you still have a problem, put a volt meter on and let us know what you find. Karl

[Author nameAuthor names are only available to PAS members.]

opened up regulator and its burnt up points stuck wire to coil melted

damn it

[Author nameAuthor names are only available to PAS members.]

We were also having a problem with my car not charging. Everything looked fine until we opened up the cutout relay, and the previous owner had taken out all of the original relay inside and replaced it with some sort of diode contraption. It obviously could not handle the current load and was completely burned up. Bill Morris had a spare relay that had to be mounted sideways, but worked. I have ordered a new relay from the Brillman Co. which appears to be correct. It even looks like I can slip the old Delco cover on in place of the one coming with it.

[Author nameAuthor names are only available to PAS members.]

Ken, be careful with changing covers, often the clearance is so small you can get arcing and melt the whole thing down. I carry Brillman cutouts as back up for tours. They look modern so I only run them as a temporary repair. Brillman also makes a solid state diode unit, which I have on thr shelf, but have not tried. Be sure you battery is fully charged, and has the correct water level in it before you install the new cut out. Never use the generator to charge a very low battery.

[Author nameAuthor names are only available to PAS members.]

Eric,

Note George Teebay’s comments on types of cutouts.

You can find them on eBay (by number) and as Mr. Ed pointed out, carry a spare.

I have three or four spares and have never needed them.

Just as I installed an electric winch in my trailer after I blew a piston and needed to have a gang of PAS Gents push my Series 80 into my trailer (it has never been used).

Peter

[Author]

Posts