Engine numbers and casting numbers explained….

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Can someone please explain how engine numbers and casting numbers are related to the year of the car?

I looked at a car with an engine number of 123379 and a casting number of 1 * 5 *16? What year of car should this engine be in? Thanks.

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Dennis,

What year car is this in? How many cylinders? Are you sure the 123379 number is not a casting number? It does not fit in any P-A engine number sequence I can find. There are several cars listed in the PAS database with this as the engine number which makes me think it is a casting number.  If this is an 8 cyl., the engine number should be STAMPED on a flat midway down the block at the joint with the head on the driver’s side. A correct serial number would indicate the year.

The other number looks like a casting date code, except that it should start with a letter.  5-16 = May 16th. If the first character were a “J”, it would be 1929. Could it possibly be an “L”, which would be 1931?

Dave

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Hi David

Thanks for the reply. The engine is an 8 in a 1929. The 2003975 indicates the car is a 29. The engine number is valid. The casting number under it may be L*5*16. Looks more like a 1 but it may be an L. The number range looks to me it may be a 31. Still kind of new at this. I will attach a picture for you. Very confusing. Should it worry me?

 

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Dennis,

Yes, the serial number indicates a 1929 Sedan.  The engine number in that car should start with A-.  Looking at near cars by serial number, it would be A-5xxx.  Please confirm for me that the engine number you have was stamped on a flat on the left side of the engine. The reason I am questioning the engine number is the only 8 cyl. engine numbers in PAS records that start with 1xxxxx are from a 1930 Model C, and these numbers only go to 102806. Attached is a photo of another 8 cyl engine with your exact number cast into the block, This is not the engine number. I have also attached a photo of the left side of an 8 cyl showing the correct location of the engine number.  ’31 engine numbers start with 22xxxx or 32xxxx.

Records we have on that car only show the ownership (Robert Howe of MA) up to the late ’60s. Interestingly, that record has a question mark for the engine number. Is it your car or do you have any other ownership history? If you have a high res photo of the left side of the engine you could e-mail me it would really help. Sorry to keep throwing questions at you.

Do you have anything to worry about? It depends on how much you value originality. If you want it for a show car, it would probably cost a few points. It is hard to say the effect on value, but I would think a little maybe, again, unless someone wants it as a show car, it would be more. As far as points loss, you would have to check with Rick Horne, PAS head judge.

As a driver, I wouldn’t think it would make a lot of difference. I am not that familiar with the working of the 8 cyl. engines, so I will let someone more knowledgeable comment on which might be the better engine. There are some differences in different years. Depending on year and what model it came from, it might actually have a larger displacement than the original.

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Thanks David.

Please see the attached picture. That is the source of my confusion? Any other explanations?

Dennis

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Yes, that is a casting number, not the engine number. Do you have any photos higher up on that side of the block that might show the engine number?

I see what you mean about the casting date code. It certainly looks like “1” or an “I”.  An “I” would indicate 1928 which I guess is theoretically possible  since I believe the first ’29 car came out in very late 1928. But I think May of ’28 is pretty unlikely.  We really  need the correct engine number.

Dave

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The only other picture I have looks like the horn is blocking it. Maybe you can see something I don’t.

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Yep, the bell of the horn is blocking the view of the number.

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The plate under the horn is hard to see and then the numbers may not be clear.  It was tough to read mine once we found it!  That number is 200425.

My 1930 Model B 5 passenger sedan has the same casting number, and the casting date seems to be l 12 2, which seems to be early for a 1930 car based on the above discussion.

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It has been well documented in the past that Pierce-Arrow aged their raw block castings for about one year before machining them.  So the casting date of Michael’s block, Dec 2, 1928, is proper for a 1930.

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