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Folks,
Just got a daily email from Hemmings on a ’33 Silver Arrow being auctioned by Sotheby’s. Thought it may be of interest.
The link follows:
http://www.hemmings.com/newsletter/newsletter?id=1419&tv=1
Bob
OK, so just curious where the Silver Arrow’s live (show cars, not production).
Serial 2575018, engine 360007, was the Blackhawk car that I believe now lives in San Francisco museum, PAS member
Serial 2575029, Engine 360005, is car referenced in above auction, ex both Cameron Peck and Henry Austin Clark, was this the one privately owned in the north east and was at a PAS show in Mass a few years back?
What are numbers on third surviving car, and where is it?
Which of these is the Harrah’s car?
For some reason I thought there were rumors of a fourth car existing, at one time long ago (1980’s) I’d heard of one in Houston, Texas, and even seen a picture of it in front of a jewelry store.
David,
From what I have been able to research, Serial number 2575018 was a Blackhawk Car and part of the Harrah collection. Here is a quote about 2575018 that I call the red wheeled car that sold in 2012 ($2.2Million). I think it was part of the exhibition at the High Museum, here in Atlanta. I saw it and it was stunning, but so were all the other cars. It was purchased for the San Francisco Academy of Art University Automobile Museum, which is something to put on your do list if in San Fran.
“Owner Don Williams of the Blackhawk Collection said he considers the Silver Arrow the “first design concept car.” According to Williams, who has pursued Silver Arrows since the late 1960s and has at one time or another owned all three of the remaining examples, no Silver Arrow has sold at auction since 1973, and no Silver Arrow has changed hands at all in the last decade or so, making this a rare opportunity for Pierce-Arrow aficionados.”
I heard Blackhawk still had one and the other was in a private collection in Florida.
I tracked one of the cars that I think was destroyed, to Baltimore. Last report (40’s) was it was owned by a John Grinage, a teacher who lived on Madison Avenue in North Baltimore. He cut out the trunk so he could haul firewood. Article attached. I call this one the Kirk Stieff car. It is a painful memory because Kirk Stieff was our first Sterling Silverware. I had to sell my Healey 3000 to pay for it.
I would love to learn more about what the members know about these cars
http://www.thestieffcompany.com/The_Stieff_Company/Stieff_Family_Photos.html
The one for sale, chassis 2575029, I call the chrome wheel car and I thought it was at Blackhawk also. When I was in San Fran last year, I was told the Blackhawk had 2 and sold the one that ended up at the Art Museum. I was also told that they were revamping all the exhibitions at Blackhawk, taking the cars down to 50 and moving towards an Old West theme.
The sale car 2575029 appears different than the Blackhawk car.
http://www.latimes.com/travel/lat-carmuseum_m55krxpd20120612172730-photo.html
http://www.latimes.com/travel/lat-carmuseum_m55krxpd20120612172730-photo.html
The three Silver Arrows are well known and their current garage spaces are tracked by a handful of people. The car for sale is the Austin Clark car, with history known from new. The Car at the art school is also well known. The one out of the current spotlight is the car that toured the northeast in 1933. All the cars could use fresh restorations and improvements to bring them back to factory condition.
Wasn’t one of the 3 original Silver Arrows at the Redmond Oregon meet in 2006?
Years ago, I had a Pierce bike with wooden wheels. At that time, an older gentlemen in west Virginia, Virginia, I don’t recall made tires for these bikes. In my conversation with him, he made some recollections. He said that his parents moved to Jacksonville Florida after WWII. While visiting them shortly after the war, he was touring a junkyard in that area. He remarked that he saw the most unusual Pierce-Arrow. He said this Pierce-Arrow in the junkyard had the spare tires in the front fenders. He seemed too old, and too genuine to be putting me on. Perhaps someone else can relate to this rumor of a junkyard Silver Arrow in Florida.
OK, so with information from a member (Thanks!), I believe the below is correct. I’m sure there are people in the club who know this by heart, but I’m not one of them and am just curious to get them straight.
Serial 2575018, engine 360007, was a Blackhawk car that now lives in San Francisco museum, PAS member. This is the car that was once owned by Harrah.
Serial 2575029, Engine 360005, is car referenced in above auction, ex both Cameron Peck and Henry Austin Clark
The remaining show car Silver Arrow is apparently engine number 360001. I believe this is the car that I’d heard about, that came out of Texas in the 40’s or 50’s, and was owned by Don Williams at some point.
Car with engine number 360002 was the Stieff car, and as noted was verified as destroyed.
That leaves one car “unaccounted” for, although there’s a record of it of course.
Here is the link to the RM Auction Co. web-site with RM’s write-up on the car:
I sent them that photo!
Ok,
I’m going to ask a question that might be a bit naive.
Based on the engine number sequence and serial sequence, it seem that there would be more than 5 produced. 0001=0007 18-29 . Did they make one, then a different model and then another????
I thought it a bit odd that the engine numbers are out of sequence as well. First 007, then 005 with ascending serial numbers. Guess it was easier to pull 007 off the shelf…
The silver arrows received experimental engines, not production engines. The S/N range was 360001-360011. I don’t believe it has ever been uncovered what modifications were made to these engines.
I sure would like to take one apart to find out!
The car up for auction is the most important historical example of the three remaining cars. It is also the most incorrect. It needs a total restoration, as the early restoration was a scuff and paint with new upholstery. The engine and chassis are basically original. If someone would drop the three mill it’s going to sell for I would be happy to help out on the restoration!
Richard,
The simple answer to your question is that the PAMCC had screwy numbering systems all along the production of most models.
Why? DK!
Peter
This is a picture of Tom Derro’s Silver Arrow shown at Williamstown in 2007. He describes it as “#1” so is this the car with engine #360001, the third existing Silver Arrow? This is in addition to the red wheeled one and the chrome wheeled one describe in the thread above? Does anyone know it’s serial number, ie 25750xx?
An older edition of the PAS Roster showed the Serial Number as 2575018 and Engine # 360007.
Happy Motoring,
Chris Diekman