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I know that my experience is limited and many others have a lot more than I do. I would like to share my experience (First and LAST) with Evapo Rust.
I ran straight evapo rust all summer to include touring at Rhonert Park meet
The first thing I noticed is that when it over flows or boils out it makes a brown sticky mess.
Some of you may know that sometimes or maybe a lot of time I do not follow the directions correctly and end up “lost” for a while ( I don’t mind if you are laughing right now, so am I. Anyway, while on a wrong turn I went way up a steep hill and the car got really hot. After cooling down and adding water we continued on. Although the car was not running great I drove the next day, but not the final day.
When I got home I drained and flushed the system Twice with dishwasher soap and then with clear water. So far ok but then, since guage was not showing charge I removed the generator and as I pulled it away from the coupler on the water pump water started pouring out of the seal Which was a modern waterpump bearing so Then after finally finding the bearing that was easier to find 10 years ago, And installing I then filled with water and… no leak until I started the engine, Then water was coming out of number one spark Plug. So that increased my suspicion of the Head Gasket which I already questioned. As I began removing the Head I had no idea how difficult it would be. I have changed dozens of head gaskets in my life but never had so much trouble getting a Head off. I decided that the studs were the cause of great resistance so I removed all but the center one which broke at the top also one broke at the bottom but at least that was out of the head then I still had to pry with all the force I dared and hoping to not damage the Head all the way to the top of the remaining stud.
I do not know if the Evapo Rust caused my leaks or the stuck studs but I sure wonder. Has anyone else had any similar experience.
Evaporators rust did not cause your problem. I have used it on many projects. Evaporators rust removes oxygen from the rusted metal, causing the rust to dissolve, it won’t cause any issues with anything. I have had heads stuck like yours, and ended up using an engine crane lifting up on the head using the plug holes, and taking all the weight off the front end so the tires are just touching the floor. This head did not have any broken bolts or studs, just stuck from years of sitting. About one week later we were in the shop and heard a noise……it finally came apart after hanging there for quite a while. I have seen heads crack and removed in sections. I think the issue you are having is people out west often run only run water with lots of minerals in them causing lots of problems. I never buy spare engines from areas where they usually only run water as the blocks tend to be rotten from sitting for years with just water. The inside of the head and block should be clean after running it…..was it? Also, if you remove the water jacket cover, expect the same issues. Ed
Sorry my computer changed the spelling on Evapo Rust.
Hi Jim: I’m sure the overheating caused the head gasket failure. The evaporust should have made the studs easier to remove, since it’s going to clean out the rust around the threads of each head stud that is exposed to the coolant.
Closely inspect the threads in the cylinder block, it is not uncommon to find several where the threads are in bad shape, and they will likely fail to take the torque when the head is reinstalled. I use ‘Time-Serts’ instead of Heli-Coils for repairing head stud threaded holes. The ‘Time-Serts’ hold and stay in place better in my experience.
The steel studs tend to rust to the Iron cylinder head over time. This is made worse if the cylinder head is not retorqued a few times when the new head gasket is installed. Coolant seeping into the gap around the stud will create corrosion quite quickly and this ‘rust-welds’ the stud to the cylinder head. This is even a worse problem with the aluminum heads used in the ’28 S81 engines and on the ’36 and later Pierce engines. The old aluminum alloys corroded quite badly.
When you prepare the cylinder head and engine block surfaces for reassembly, be sure to put a slight chamfer on the threaded hole for each cylinder stud. This slight chamfer gives room for the copper gasket to flow into the chamfer when the head is torqued. If there is even the slightest raised lip around the stud where it is threaded into the cylinder block, this raised lip will stop or reduce the clamping forces of the head against the head gasket. This will result in the gasket leaking. So use a large drill bit, or a chamfer cutter to make a slight recess around each stud hole and threaded hole in the block. Just a slight recess is needed, about as wide as the spark plug gap: .025″ is plenty wide.
When you install the new cylinder head gasket, torque the head in several stages. i usually will use around 25-30 ft/lbs for the first pass, then 35-40 ft/lbs. I use 45-50 ft/lbs for the final torque. This is with Anti-Sieze on the threads of the head nuts, and i use washers. Originally the S80 engines had 5/8″ nuts and no washers. Today, the 7/16-20 nuts will be 11/16″, and I use a grade 5 or grade 8 machine washer under the nut.
If you do not use a high pressure lubricant on the threads, the torque needs to be greater. It is much safer to use Anti-Sieze on the threads than to guess how much more torque is needed with dry threads.
Torque the head and leave it for at least several hours, I usually leave it for 12 hours or more. Then using the same torque/tightening pattern, slightly loosen each nut, and re-torque to your final torque setting. You will find many if not all the nuts at least 5-10 ft/lbs loose.
After the re-torque of the head nuts, I start the engine and let it warm up. Do NOT drive the car, the creates too much combustion chamber pressure for the fresh head gasket. As the cylinder head warms, it expands, and this adds more pressure against the head gasket. The expansion of the head crushes the new gasket some more, leaving the head nuts slightly loose again. You then need to let the engine completely cool, and re-torque the head-nuts again. You will again find some of the nuts to be slightly loose.
This expansion of the cylinder head when warmed-up is the same expansion that when an engine is overheated, causes the gasket to start to leak. When an engine is overheated, it is a good idea to re-torque the cylinder head nuts, once it has fully cooled, to clamp and seal the head gasket again.
Use of a spray-on copper based gasket sealant is often used, especially if the gasket surfaces are rough. I would certainly have the cylinder head checked by a machine shop for being FLAT. if it has warped from overheating, it just be machined flat.
I hope this info helps you with your head-gasket replacement.
Greg Long
Thank You both Ed and Greg for your reply
The head is already at machine shop . The water passages that are visible look dark , not rusty. The gasket was free and the stud was tight all the way up.
I have always used soft or distilled water with Napa cool or no rosion or similar rust inhibitor since the complete rebuild 6 years ago 650 miles. I did not re torque after heating up at Napa. Which surely would have been good to do. Will carry torque wrench in future.
I have removed broken studs and cleaned all threads by running tap all the way in on all 21 holes. Will be sure to use anti seize which I think I used before?
Thanks Again, Jim
Jim,
The discussion above does not mention the need for a thread sealant on the block end of the studs. A sealant is necessary to preclude water leakage by the threads which will corrode the studs up in the head area. There are many sealant choices out there; I use one with a methacrylate component.
Bob
I may be the only one confused on this topic, but it sounds like you ran straight Evapo Rust as a coolant in your engine?
I thought Evapo Rust was a one time treatment for rust and corrosion problems, not a coolant. I do see Evapo Rust cleaner and flush for cooling systems, but that says “flush”, or do they make a coolant?
David,
There was a Message Board thread a while back about running Evapo Rust as coolant for a period of time to remove rust from inside the block without having to tear the engine down. Time and heat make it work better. The thread will be appearing as an article in the Service Bulletin shortly. Dave
I have run it for an entire season in one of my older Restorations that had rust/overheating/pushing water/ issues. It solved 80 percent of my issues, made the car drivable for two or three seasons till I had time to pull the head, water jacket, and radiator. At the time I just was intrested in driving the car before I tore into it. Now on ALL my new purchases I drain what ever the car had for coolant in it, weather or not it has issues, and run the EVAPO RUST in it for a few months,,,,,,,it can’t hurt, and often it sure does help. I can say for certain it is a worthwhile endeavor for any car with overheating issues related to partially blocked radiators, heads, and water jackets. I keep ten gallons in stock in my shop at all times. I have been doing this a long time, it’s not a miracle solution to all your problems, but it will make improvements to any car with cooling issues. Ed
Since Evaporust also makes a related product specifically marketed for cooling systems called Thermocure ,why not run it? I recently used it to run through my ’35 P-A to clear up the last of the rust that didn’t come out from flushing with a swimming pool pump/filter. I think the active ingredient is the same, perhaps the product is the same also, just different packaging or perhaps concentration.
Jim
I have not seen the “other†product. Having had great success with the standard product, I shall stick with it. Again it’s not a cure all, but will help in many instances. Also, if your going to be cleaning out the block, head, and radiator, by removing the water jacket cover, head, and radiator, it will greatly reduce time, effort and mess. I have taken an undrivable car and been able to use it for several seasons. I would call that a success. The car I ran it in extensively had the block and head looking like it was shot blasted on the inside after using it an entire summer. Also, when I finally took the car apart, back flushing the radiator was much easier than normal….and much less likely to cause a radiator leak from back flushing. The chemical reaction removes rust by attaching to the oxygen molecules in the rust, There are a lot of other similar chemicals that will do the same thing for a lot less money, but can damage paint. Thus I spend the money on the over the counter product.
Also, remember that if you have a mouse nest, acorns, or other organic things in the radiator from mice, the Evapo Rust won’t help at all. Often times its both problems. I have found when you have the mouse issue, no matter what you try, you will end up pulling the head, water jacket, and radiator.
Some time back, NoRosion caused foaming in my Series 33 and the Nethercutt Collection had the same problem with their cars using it.