Sticky Blue Grease in 1908 Transmission?

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Not a Pierce, but would like to access the accumulated knowledge, here.

We just got a 1908 Thomas Flyer and the transmission/transaxle gears are covered by a sticky blue grease, not as thick as bearing grease, but not as thin as 600w. Trying to decide if I should add 600w (being aware not to get the grease that attacks bronze)

Any ideas?

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My 1906 Maxwell 2 cylinder 5 x 5, has a 3 speed progressive transmission

that requires grease with a quart of 30 weight. Progressive transmission means

that you must pass through first and second to arrive at third and vice versa.

With an H slot you can go from any gear to another. That’s why it is called

selective. I think Winton and Stevens Duryea were some of the last to use

a progressive shift in 1912 or 1913. Both of these makes were near low

luxury pricing. Maxwell (middle priced) had it in 1913. I would contact any

of the many automotive libraries to have duplicates made of any literature

that they have regarding your car and its operation. Then contact other owners

of Thomases near your year for their experiences. I have a friend who won

first place in his class at Pebble Beach and I am aware that he used 600 wt.

I believe his car is a 1911.

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Thank you for your kind reply. Here is a picture in the transmission top. I could only lift the cover a small amount but shows the grease.

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Having owned a few brass cars, my opinion:

First is that whatever that blue stuff is is probably an arbitrary lubricant that someone added over the last 100 years and is very unlikely to be what was used originally. So, I think there’s nothing magical about whatever that stuff is. And remember that we understated lubrication technology a lot better than they did 100 years ago, even a generation ago. Whatever it says in the owner’s manual might have been good for the time but I think we understand things a bit better today.

Second is that whatever you put in needs to primarily lubricate the bearings which hold the gear shafts. And whatever that is will take care of the gear teeth as they mesh. Hence grease or something super thick could starve the bearings and lead to a failure although it may lubricate the teeth.

I’ve used steam cylinder oil, a product called Shell Valvada 680. There are varying thicknesses of steam cylinder oil, but the 680 stuff approximates 600W gear oil. But again, you’ve got to lubricate the bearings and bushings which support the gear shafts. In cold weather I’ve found that the 600-W stuff gets too thick.

So an alternative is to use a modern 85w-90 gear oil but one that does not harm brass or bronze bushings, a GL-4. I’ve used Sta-Lube brand, but whatever make sure it’s GL-4 or earlier (lower number). If that’s too thin, which it probably will be, you can add Lucas Oil Stabilizer which thickens the mixture yet is supposed to still be not harmful to yellow metals. Or you can mix it with steam cylinder oil to get something which will allow smooth shifts yet still be thin enough to lubricate bearings and bushings.

As I see it, the only disadvantage to thin gear oils is that you may experience hard shifting if you don’t have the technique down well to shift at exactly the right time, and second the transmission will probably leak unless you have installed modern seals. But a leaking transmission or differential is preferable to inadequate lubrication inside.

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Scott, thank you for your kind and thoughtful remarks. The background is that this blue lube is less than ten years old as the car has been completely disassembled and restored. Engine, trans, chassis. The original restorer was Wolfgang Gawor who was one of the top Thomas Flyers in the world.

However, the car was completed by a restoration shop after he passed. The workmanship is superb on the rest of the car. But the blue grease is a mystery and who knows put this grease into the trans!

Perhaps my best choice is to disassemble the trans and clean the blue gorp and fill it with GL-4 or steam oil. You have an excellent point about the bearings being well lubricated properly. Too thick and too thin would cause problems.

Transmissions of different years may have different qualifications. I suppose my 1916 Pierce might have different grease though 600w seems an all around lube.

I agree that the GL-4 would be a good candidate as GL-5 could be disastrous.

Do you have a suggestion about my best and simplest to remove the blue?

I again appreciate everyone’s suggestions. I mention that I do have a 1916 Pierce 48B 7 passenger car. The accumulated knowledge of this group is superb. Though some of the fine members my Pierce is running very well.!

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Best way to remove the blue goop is to remove the transmission and turn it upside down to let it slowly drain out. With a little added heat. Then wash it with kerosene or similar.

But if the transmission isn’t easily removed,

I would try to scoop and suction out as much as you can. I assume the top of the transmission is removable so that gives you good access to the inside. Figure out a way to suction it out, but don’t obsess over getting it all. The first refill, however, use the thin 85W-90 gear oil, and drive the car 50 miles or more to get everything all uniformly mixed up. Then drain the oil. You might want to even to this a couple of times if you are concerned having the blue goop inside not knowing exactly what it is. Then when most of it is gone, you can do the steam cylinder/Lucas Stabilizer/Sta-Lube mix to whatever works best.

If the blue goop is within twenty years old, there shouldn’t be much problem with compatibility of different oils and greases. In the old days — like 50 years ago — you did not want to mix different greases and even oils because additive packages were proprietary and not necessarily compatible. Today, although different companies hold their proprietary blends, I think just about everything has reached an industry standard of being compatible.

Regarding your Pierce 48, did you obtain this car from (or was it at one time for sale by) David Greenlees in Brattleboro, VT? I drove it when it was for sale and it was a handsome, unique Pierce. It was all that I could afford at the time (Parable of The Merchant) but I thought it needed some attention, which I couldn’t afford. So I sadly let it pass. I have a few photos.

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Looks like it might be difficult to remove the transmission, Scott. I like your idea of scooping, vacuuming and rinsing with kerosene. Thin oil. Drive a while and drain. Repeat. Thank you again for your sage advice.

I think that my Pierce was owned by David Greenlee. I bought it from Jeff Chattin here in Georgia. He bought it at Hershey in Sotheby Auction. Seemed to be a good price. The engine has been redone, aluminum pistons. Also wheel bearings and brakes, new leather cone clutch, some other things. It runs and drives beautifully.

I would love to have copies of any pictures and anything regarding the 48-B. A PA authority thinks that it is really a 5p since the rear seat is quite more narrow than the usual. The rear fenders are much wider. As you know it has an FR Wood & Son body.

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The inset dash. The cowl vent is plate glass. Notice the vents in the sides. It was commissioned to a CEO of a trucking company in southern California. An especially thick radiator, slightly different for PA for extra cooling in southern California.

There are mixed reviews as to whether the car was born with the FR Wood body or was added later. Its pedigree only goes back to 1960 and it has been together at this time.

Personally, I love the car, whatever it is.

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At the sake of hijacking my own thread, as I think I have good advice to fix the transmission in the Thomas, so one more about the Pierce from a request from Bernie Weis.

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