Hood Orrnament Question

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  • October 25, 2018 at 5:04 pm #392464
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    I am hoping that this esteemed group can answer the following question.

    What is the first year that Pierce-Arrow used the wheel with Pierce script and arrow hood ornament on their cars, as in this photo?

    October 26, 2018 at 11:59 am #407971
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    Should the Arrow be pointed left to right, or should it be pointed straight foreward?

    October 26, 2018 at 12:43 pm #407973
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    I have only seen them pointed straight ahead.

    October 26, 2018 at 2:45 pm #407974
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    The best person to answer this question would be Paul Johnson. From what I overheard several years ago was the dealer in New York City commissioned the hood ornament and put them on the cars to show or define what was sold.

    Again, this is what I overheard..

    October 27, 2018 at 5:09 am #407981
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    Terry, I found this Motometor at the Chickasha Swap Meet. It has a brass plate with the wheel and arrow. So this would be pre-nickel? There is three different wheels like yours. Two have script Pierce, the other has block letters Pierce. The one you have has the largest wheel of the three. I was told yours was the last, and correct for Series 36. Karl

    October 27, 2018 at 5:11 am #407982
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    Brass dog bone too

    October 27, 2018 at 5:16 am #407983
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    Second Script Wheel, note early style valve stem cover and fine detail casting. Karl

    October 27, 2018 at 5:21 am #407984
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    Block Letters

    October 27, 2018 at 5:29 am #407985
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    Two senior MotoMeters, Black painted has Dealer name and pat. dates as early as 1913. Last pat. date 1918 Other has “deluxe”” trim with wreath around the openings. Karl”

    October 27, 2018 at 8:25 am #407986
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    Thanks for the info Karl. You have an impressive collection of hood ornaments! Of course I would expect this from someone who collects Pierce-Arrow and Wills Sainte Claires….

    My dilemma is that I recently purchased a P/A B-2 1913/14 48 hp touring without a hood ornament, and was considering what to put on it. I had seen an old photo of the car with a giant eagle hood ornament that looked like it came off the flag pole at the White House, but that didn’t look right to me either.

    October 27, 2018 at 8:50 am #407987
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    On my 1927 Model 36 Limo I have to be very careful when opening the hood sides. The arrow back fin will hit the hood if its left pointed forward. It needs to be pointed left or right so it does not kick the paint.

    October 27, 2018 at 10:34 am #407988
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    Terry,

    You should grab a copy (buy or get from library) the following book by William C. Williams: Motoring Mascots of the World.

    There may be two volumes.

    It details each of the Pierce-Arrow mascots.

    I reproduced one of the mascots, the one that Karl shows with BLOCK LETTERS, but they are long gone.

    I would, and may, look into my copies of Williams’ books, if I can dig them out of wherever they are stored and get back to you.

    Also, the arrow is pointed “going down the road.””

    Peter”

    http://www.amazon.com/Motoring-Mascots-World-English-French/dp/0879380365

    October 27, 2018 at 11:57 am #407990
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    We frequently see the mascot pointing sideways when we walk through a group of parked Pierces. This is for the reason that Charles Moore mentioned: the arrow’s tail-feathers get hit by the hood when it is lifted. The driver of a Pierce with this type/style of mascot will often turn the mascot so that if he goes to open the hood, he won’t FORGET to turn the mascot first !!

    It is rare to find an upright wheel mascot with an intact tail-feather. Mascots with broken tail-feathers are somewhat common.

    The only original ‘Block-Lettered’ Mascot i’ve seen was pot-metal, and had severe cracking. But the wheel, spokes, felloes, and other details were VERY sharp, like the upright wheel mascot Karl showed.

    Greg Long

    October 27, 2018 at 3:00 pm #407991
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    Terry,

    Well, I ventured into the maelstrom and found my William C. Williams, Motoring Mascots of the World.

    Williams states on pages; 61 & 62 that the top mascot shown on this discussion is from the Late Teens to 1922.

    The book makes no mention of Karl’s first mascot shown with an Arrow but shows one similar without the Arrow, that is listed as of 1905 vintage.

    The second one Karl posted is of 1920s vintage, which is the one I reproduced, with ITALIC BLOCK letters.

    Williams also shows another PIERCE Wheel & Arrow similar to Karl’s second photo, but it appears to be FLAT rather than more rounded (if you get my drift) and that Mascot has BLOCK letters that are straight and not ITALIC, made for the Series 80.

    Finally regarding this type of mascot, Williams shows the Winged, Pierce-Arrow, wheel-like mascot with the image of the nose of a Series 80 inside of a hexagon. This was likewise made for the Series 80, one of which sold a few days ago on eBay.

    I hope that this aids in your search for information.

    Peter

    October 27, 2018 at 3:08 pm #407992
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    Terry & Gents,

    As I believe is accurate, Pierce-Arrow Dealers sometimes commissioned the creation of a particular radiator mascot for their Dealership, so someone in San Francisco might have been able to buy something unique that was not available nationwide through the PAMCC.

    Peter

    October 27, 2018 at 4:53 pm #407994
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    Terry, I feel your open wheel or my closed wheel would look wonderful on your new Pierce on a black Bakelite cap. This logo is Pierces earliest with a lowered “carved out”” center point. Even the early Billings tool kit wrenches have this detail. The later Fairmont wrenches do not have this engineering detail. With right hand drive maybe a mascot will keep you on the right side of the road. Karl”

    October 27, 2018 at 9:09 pm #407996
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    Peter: Thanks for mentioning the Williams mascot book. I have a copy in my library. A very good reference. Unfortunately nothing definitively about hood ornaments for early teen cars.

    Karl: I very much like your closed wheel hood ornament. Any leads on where to find one?

    Greg: Thanks for the phone call today. I appreciate your assistance!

    October 28, 2018 at 9:20 pm #408000
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    This is the one that we have on our Series 80. It came with our Pierce Arrow when we bought it.

    Peter, I also saw the one you pictured that was on ebay last week. Someone got a

    nice buy on it.

    October 28, 2018 at 11:39 pm #408001
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    Ken, that one looks like it leans forward enough that the tail feathers don’t get in the way when you open the hood.

    Especially since the picture was taken with the hood up.

    October 28, 2018 at 11:50 pm #408002
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    Craig,

    You are correct it the hood does miss it when I open the hood. At one point someone did figure out a way to hit the hood against it. George T. pointed out to me where it had hood was nicked. I am very careful when opening the hood and do turn the cap to the side as George suggested I do that to make sure it does not hit.

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