35 pierce 7 pass 143 chassis Gullwing Car advertised in Astoria

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    Whats the consensus on the 1603 7pass advertised by internet: Gullwing cars in astoria NY…any insight?


    Hi- from the pictures, it’s missing a lot of expensive parts, carb, bumpers, etc. I sold a complete, running and driving, 1936 club sedan at Hershey a couple years ago. Also needed restoration, but had the goodies, bumpers, sidemount covers, etc. Got 12K for it, an amount that actually surprised some experienced Pierce people (who didn’t think that particular unrestored car was worth that much). Great cars, but very expensive to restore. This particular car you mention is the proverbial “if they gave it to you free, you’d be upside down by the time you finished restoring it.” My advice is to go find a good complete, possibly older restoration, and pay a note at the bank instead of paying for chrome, paint, upholster, engine work, parts, etc. Best- David Coco Winchester Va.


    Hi, Clay:

    If you mean the ’36 that they have for 12.5k and is “80% complete”, I sure agree with David. On the other hand if you mean the ’35 Model 845 that they are offering for 29.5k, I can give you a lot of information on that car – I paid for a professional inspection on it last summer and finally decided not to buy it. Drop me an e-mail if you want more info on that one.

    Bill Seward

    http://[email protected]


    Hi- didn’t notice the ’35, it is a much better car from a condition standpoint. That said, there are still things to watch for. Make sure all lenses are glass, for example, not plastic reproductions. And, in my humble opinion, it’s still a little pricey. If the paint were better, maybe, but paint appears to be gone beyond what one might want to keep as original. Good luck with your search, I think the earlier 30’s are more attractive cars, but the 36-38 are great drivers, with overdrive and such. The ’36 I sold, we got it running and driving after being in dead storage after 50 years, and it drove and rode, as is, better than my “driver restored”” 31 phaeton! best -David Coco Winchester Va.”


    Agree, all in all its pretty tough not to like em all…but I prefer late 20’s through end of production just because most of the kinks were likely to have been worked out…and this one has side-mounts…always a sucker for those…it is a bit pricey…thanks for the insight.


    Pierce-Arrows are often tough to appraise unless they are a model that

    turns over often.David W. Coco’s advice about finding a car that is in

    the best condition that you can afford and securing it,will keep many out

    mental health facilities.On valuing the ’35.The Society knows of about 13

    in various states of condition.About 875 8’s and 12’s were produced that

    year(17.5 for each state if there was equal distribution).As this model

    was low on the pecking order,values after restoration will probably not

    recoup the investment.No.1 and 2. condition remaining cars may be counted

    on one hand.My handy NADA Dec. 2008 Guide values one low at $30,100.AVG

    at $45,900,and high at $66,600.Though there have been 3 that have

    appeared on the market in the last year(2 sold),what are the odds of any

    more coming up for sale in the near future (and in Coco advice condition)


    Tony Costa

    (and in Coco advice condition)?


    agreed, but like having known who an owner was (as in a celebrity)of a vehicle, it is still judged as a piece of automobile and price should not account for who owned it, but condition. NOW, I do agree that rarity has its place, but I believe a group such as this one should not artificially create demand where there is none either.like an auction…always a fine balance for those who see cars as investments and those who simply appreciate the cars without thought to long term investment potential. One of the great problems, as I see it for any specialist group auto or aircrat…is that while the knowledgeable group appears to be aging as a whole in its membership…how many younger members, like myself…still have to fight the entry fee to even have a project, much less three or four…I tend to lean to the appreciation and enjoyment group and much like old aircraft would like to see the dollars remain manageable for the cars, but not have a group driven/influential in terms of how wealthy an individual member may or may not be..bottom line, I here you that cars in this condition are not likely to come up often..and we should retain as many as possible…but a viable group also needs to take into account not inflating the market for the groups own good and to truly take a realistic approach to a finished product.It is still an enjoyable hobby for most I would hope. I value all opinions and have truly appreciated the insight by the members to date. Thanks for yours also.


    Hi Clay, your comment “but a viable group also needs to take into account not inflating the market for the groups own good and to truly take a realistic approach to a finished product” sort of baffles me. The members of the PAS are not inflating the cost of Pierce Arrow cars, the market has done so. For a long time, if a Pierce was worth X, a similar year and model Packard was worth 2X. Now, the Pierce cars have reached an equal price level, and I’ve actually heard people state that they are amazed at that fact.

    Value, or cost, of a Classic automobile, is the proverbial double edged sword. It’s great that they’re valuable when you already own them, but when you’re looking to acquire one, it’s easy to complain how expensive they are.

    As for new-comers to the hobby, it’s a matter of having reasonable expectations of what you might acquire. There are plenty of 30’s Pierce sedans that become available (and no, I don’t mean hundreds, but at any one time there are a few for sale). Many of these are nice older restorations, and can be had in the 25K to 35K range. Expensive, one might say, yet we go out and buy a new car in the same price range without blinking an eye, and just pay the note each month. At the end of of 5 or 6 years, the new car is worth a fraction of the original purchase price. The Pierce? Possibly as much as you paid for it, maybe a little less if worn from some good touring, maybe a little more depending on market conditions.

    Thus, if potential younger members would look at it in that context, the entry into the wonderful world of Classics (and Pierce Arrow in particular) is very possible. Best – David Coco Winchester Va.


    Agreed, and hope my comment is not too baffling…you see in

    aircraft groups, such as the WACO owners club…with an even more limited production figures in some cases for a particular type, (it was a very corporate A/C for its time or for very wealthy individuals also)….within one particular type club within WACO, it became a game of individuals scooping up aircraft or parts for investment and sitting on them before someone else did or even before others members where made aware of them (In general internal competition) and then magically having just what you need for a very high price.(Individual not market driven)…and then cornering the market in \”type\” so that one merely drives the market up through a single individual owning all known parts of a type..not a market…many other more \”friendly \” vintage A/C groups of similar stature work hard to let all know where there is info.or parts to whomever wanted them.price established by the part value and interest in it, not the individual investment…much like I am experiencing with this group to date…very helpful members through a bond of interest not market driven willing to permit measure’s or re pros or whatever.. That’s all I meant. To show the extreme…for re:WACO airplane group if a single part was original and used in the final A/C completion it was declared an original A/C even if everything else was built around one part the data plate only… and one could build everything around it given enough $$. If one had the original data plate even more so. In fact data plates where being sold at outrages prices, in some cases more than 25% of a complete A/C and no reproductions offered, to effectively create whole new reproduction A/C..and then sold as “restorations”…silly stuff like that which only drove prices higher for smaller original parts..vice simply making a reproduction data plate part. All the normal issues one get into. No disparaging comment intended, I am pleased at the openness of the group to date, The focus I do see right now, In fact I am very encouraged.Just have been burned before in other circumstances.


    Hi, Clay:

    As a member who spent last summer looking for a Pierce, I’d like to put my 2 cents worth in. I do agree with David that the market sets the price, but we all recognize that especially with the top-end cars (Senior Packards, Cadillac, Pierce-Arrow, etc.), the “market” is pretty thin. Also, whether it is a dealer or a private individual, there is an incentive to partly recover one’s costs (if the vehicle is restored)or to make a profit (if one deals in these cars as a business). So the market for top-end cars is not as elastic as it might be for say Junior Packards or non-classic Buicks, Chevy’s, etc, simply because more of those cars were made and more are out there for sale at any one time.

    One thing that helped me in my search for a suitable vehicle was to define very clearly what “suitable” meant to me. Was I interested in a restorable vehicle in which I wanted to invest hundreds or thousands of hours of my own labor, plus many dollars, in restoring the vehicle to new or near new condition? Did I want a car that I could drive from Day One, merely maintaining it in the condition in which I bought it? Did I want an “original” vehicle in which I would accept flaws in original paint, worn original upholstery, and the joys of 6v electrical systems, original gearboxes, high ratio rear end, etc. to keep the car as close as possible to the way it originally came from the factory? When the market is subdivided that way it becomes even smaller, but Pierce-Arrows of all kinds do come onto it, and usually here first. I think you will find that the prices for Pierces offered in this Emporium are as reasonable, or more so, than you will find on the rest of the market, and my experience certainly reflects yours, that this society is up-front, helpful, and actively trying to help you and all new members in acquiring a car that you will be happy with for the period of ownership. That I was not able to acquire a Pierce had nothing to do with any dealings I had with any member of the PAS, but was strictly based on my own self-imposed criteria. I think you are finding and will find this to be a truly special society, and I wish you all the very best in your search.





    Hi Clay,

    I purchased a driver condition 1935 P.A 845 5 pass. sedan 9 mos. ago.

    I believe it’s the only one on the West Coast(2 Club Sedans out here).

    I payed about the same as my A Ford Phaeton is worth.I payed $8000 less

    than my 1934 Hupmobile Aerodynamic hotrod cost me(oddball stuff needs

    loving too!).The price I payed may not be entry level to this hobby,but

    when I go to Hot August Nites,very few have less invested in their cars

    than I do,and a substantial number have more in their paint job than I

    payed for the whole car.

    My car was state of the art when it was new.No better quality car was

    available.A woman could drive it without pulling shoulder muscles and

    fatigue.It was a rare car when it was new,but easily recognized by the

    general public.There is no American Sedan today with P.A class and is

    offered at a comparable price(6 Xs a $24,000 Ford equals $144,000).

    An average working guy could afford the 1925 P.A. 80 2 Dr. Sedan for

    $18,000(if he had an understanding wife,few kids,didn’t smoke or drink),

    that I know of.I’m amazed at how low P.A.s go for,even the rare and

    “desireable” ones.

    The nice part about P.A.s is the knowledgeable bunch of owners and the

    Society(never thought I could belong to one)that makes it possible to

    care and feed your P.A.s and usher them into the future.You do not need

    a car to have fun with this group.They will happily share their rides

    with you.Good Luck in your search.I believe I know where an A trailer

    is,but have been afraid of approaching the owner.

    Tony Costa


    I believe I know where an A trailer


    Anthoney Care to Dicypher what an A trailer is?


    Pierce-Arrow Travelodge travel trailers were built only as 1937 models, rather unimaginatively termed Model A (19′ can), Model B (16.5 ft can), and Model C (13.5 ft can). See recent trailer thread. I have a Model A that was at Redmond Meet in 2006 with decently-but-not-perfectly-restored interior, needs paint. Will try to attach pic. A total of about 500 trailers were built over probably only a 5-month period–at least 149 A’s, 261 B’s, and 100 C’s per known highest serial numbers. List price on a ‘A’ was the same as TWO new 1937 Ford or Chev coupes.



    Interesting, I sent you an e message separately on this topic..



    I really appreciate your explanation on this topic, and hope that more ( as well as potential) get to consider your expressed viewpoint. That you are also including your son in your hobby activities is also laudible.

    Thanks, and keep up the good works,




    I really did not mean to kick the cat on the affordability topic. :)

    Now back to cars…anyone have a basket case project out there?


    Clay, I have a 1929 Model C, two door sedan which needs total restoration, especially the wood. It has the “New York” headlights and is missing some parts. I have never tried to turn over the engine. If interested, contact me at my e-mail address. Louis

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