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Recent barn find parked since the 1950’s, very nice car, stored in a dry garage. Notice the steering box bearings have races made of pot metal. As the pictures clearly show, they are ready to fall apart. There was no sign in the steering box indicating the problem. If driven, the races fall apart, causing severe loss of control while driving, and a possibility of box lock. Every car from 29 & 30 should have these bearings and races removed. Not only could you lose you car, you could lose your life. See photos below, Ed Minnie.
Another photo.
What is the repair solution? Are better bearings available?
Total steering box overhaul. It’s a difficult fix. Direct replacment bearings and races are no longer available. Plus it’s welded together so the axel wheel and roller week require replacement, which means making new parts of correct dimensions that are heat treated correctly, as well as changing the design to accept a more modern and better designed bearings and races. Other steering box items usually also need attention, assuming the worm is good. John Cislak makes parts, but does not sell them due to liability issues, and only offers a rebuilding service. It very easy to have incorrect material and heat treatment issues, and it’s a long and expensive learning curve. Then with the box correctly rebuilt, you still need to set it up correctly, which is no walk in the park if you hadn’t done a lot of steering box work. It’s a rather important safety issue as you can see, all the cars were manufactured like this, many were run dry over the years, so it can be a can of worms issue. I have personally seen the race failure, and it’s no joking matter. Basically, I think it’s good advice to remove your box and have it inspected if you can’t handle it yourself. To be honest I have helped John do a bunch of these boxes, they are used in L-29 Cord and Stutz as well. As time goes bye they aren’t going to get any better! It’s just something all 29 and 30 owners need to understand and address. No one would run down the road at 60 mph on seventy five year old tires, as that would be insanity. But it’s time for all these Gemmer steering box cars are examined. From what I see going through John’s shop, ninety percent of the boxes have several different and consistent issues. Not all show signs of this type of failure above, but the question is not if but when there will be an accident with a club members car, and if someone get hurt, and a car gets wrecked. While I wouldn’t panic, I would not own a 29 or 30 and drive it without dealing with this issue. I recommend anyone with questions contact Cislak, as he doesn’t always have the rebuild parts in stock, and even the modern replacement bearings have to come from obsolete bearing houses, and they are pricey and not always available. My guess is the safety issue will eventually require a safety check on these boxes before they are allowed to tour in various car clubs in the future. The other issue is lead time for any restoration shop to deal with the box. Parts and machining as well as shop time can cause a repair such as this to take three to six months or even longer depending on the shop. I’ll try and post some more photos of the box repairs and upgrades as this one goes along. My best, Ed.
week = wheel. Sorry!
Thanks a bunch for this important information. Our hobby, like many others, can be dangerous and when there are safety issues word needs to get out. NHTSA is not going to recall a 1929 Pierce-Arrow.
Perhaps we need a page or file where safety-related issues can be accumulated and accessed.
For those interested, John Cislak has some great info and photos on the AACA forum of this box being rebuilt and updated. I ran across it with a random search, Gemmer steering box Cord l-29. It looks like from his photos and description that is the Pierce-Arrow way to go.
As long as you’re talking about 1929’s. I was warned when I bought mine that all 1929’s have rear axles made of brittle metal. I didn’t take heed until mine snapped right in half in my driveway when I came to an sudden stop. Just thought I’d mention it. tom griffith
Yes, the 29’s suffer from that issue. Many have been changed out already. Aftermarket companies in the early 30’s sold them at local parts stores. They were also made by a PAS club member back in the late 60’s or early 70’s. They fit both 29 and 30. They have a different spline count than the 31 and later cars. I can’t remember the number off the top of my head.
1929 and 1930 use 8-spline axles; these are the fractious (pun!) ones. Later axles have 10 splines. Foote Axle in Los Angeles made up a batch of 8-spline axles for a PAS member in the late 1980s. I was fortunate to be able to acquire an uninstalled pair of them from a former member who had sold the car they were intended for–within a few days of snapping one of the originals in my 1930.
Interestingly, at least to me, the broken axle stubs exhibited OLD oil staining on 80% of the cross section at the break–meaning that the car had been operating on 20% of the cross section for years. The final break occurred at a very conservative departure from a stop sign.
Poor metal in the steering gear and bad axles in 1929 coinciding with the takeover by Studebaker in 1928 and large increase in production. Coincidence or was this level of failure common at that time?
Jim
These Gemmer steering boxes were used in several high end cars at that time
and the Dual Valve Pierce Arrows had a tendency to crack valve seats.Simplexes have turned up with decaying crankcases and four cylinder Packards have turned up with porous cylinder blocks.Alot has been learned about metallurgy in the last 87 years and this is not a fault of the car.The makers used the best materials known at the time.
My daughter and I are putting together a pile of parts that once done should be a 30 PA Model B. The steering gear is apart and looks good under a magnifying glass. The bearing is tight and does not have any play. Should we put it back together? Does not look like white metal but Im not sure how to tell with out damaging it. Any thoughts are appreciated.
Looks like It’s been changed out. Here is a photo of NON STOCK parts and seals Cislak used as an upgrade. If your worm and bearings are good, and the bolt in the roller wheel is welded with the correct bearing load, you should be ok. Setting up the box is not easy, Greg Long posted a few months ago on how to properly set it up. Understanding how the box works, and it’s adjustments is not for the shady tree mechanic. I will post more photos of the box build from the start of this thread as it progresses over the next few months.
Photo will not post.
Boy, those of us with ’29 and ’30 cars have more than one spot to worry about on our cars.
Steering boxes, weak exhaust manifolds, crumbling carburetors, rear axles that like to snap and fragile headlight retaining rings to name a few.
Add to that the oil pump housings which were zinc die-castings.
You cannot blame Pierce Arrow as many of these parts were used on other cars.This is the territory when getting into early cars.I had a cracked manifold on a 1986 Jeep Cherokee and have seen one on a 1954 Morris Minor.Age plus rough usage can cause these issues.It is not just 1929 and 1930 Pierce Arrows.
Thanks for the advice Ed. I did read and save Greg Longs post. Thanks also for raising the discussion as nothing is more important than steering and good brakes.
Dave
Hi David, let me know if you have any questions when assembling or adjusting the gearbox. If you have a ‘Motors’ shop manual, they have a section on steering gear boxes. You will have to have an early ‘Motors’ manual to have this ’29- ’30’s steering gear box. It is pretty good reading. If you don’t have one, or can’t find a reasonably priced manual, let me know and I can scan and email or possibly scan and post the directions from the manual.
Greg Long