Ant freeze solutioni

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Preparing for colder weather in St. Louis, since my PA Model 81’s engine is all or part Aluminum, is there a special antifreeze solution that I should use that will protect my engine and radiator? AND, should I use a partial antifreeze solution in the warmer months instead of ALL WATER? Thanks, DAVE STEPHENS.

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David,

You can use NAPA Kool, Evans Waterless coolant, Penrite, etc., that are non-ethyl Glycol coolants.

I live in the Northeast, so I do not drive my Series 80 in the winter and install regular ethyl glycol antifreeze just to keep the system from freezing.

In the spring, I drain it and flush it three or six times and tenth install the Napa Kool.

Ethyl glycol antifreeze foams too much for non-pressurized cooling systems and will foam and then begin to syphon out (BAD!).

Peter

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Peter,

Thank you for that explanation. For the past year, I could not figure out why I was loosing coolant and needed constant replacement when it was an ethyl glycol anti-freeze mixture but not when it was distilled water. Now it makes sense. Obviously, I won’t be doing that any more.

Robert

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Bob,

You want to be putting some of the NAPA-KOOL or Penrite or Evans Coolant in your system, as they all inhibit corrosion, unlike distilled water or water of any sort.

Peter

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BTW, I flush the cooling system three or six times and THEN install the Napa Kool.

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Peter,

Yes, I also flush the radiator out well when I change the fluid. In addition, I have been adding the NAPA anti-rust product to the distilled water only and the coolant/water mixture each time (https://www.napaonline.com/napa/en/p/MCR1300/MCR1300). I don’t know if this is better, worse, or just different than the products you mentioned.

Robert

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We drive our cars…quite a bit and every year. I use anti-freeze living in Michigan in case the heat goes out in our storage facility. I do the same with the cars in the Pierce-Arrow Museum. I only use the old fashioned green stuff, never anything with the ‘OAT’ types – usually yellow or pink.

I experienced foaming on both our 1601 and 1247 until the water pumps were rebuilt with new vanes fitted in the pump housings to very close tolerances. The foaming is caused by cavitation at the vane tips due to excessive clearance. Both cars have been foam free for many miles and several years.

In the distant past many (or most) Southern California/Florida cars were run with no anti-freeze. Failure to use corrosion prevention of some kind will result in the condition of our “rust-free” Pasadena CA 1247 when we bought it. That “recently rebuilt” engine failed because of pinhole leaks in 3 cylinders.

Lots of rust was obviously inside the engine prior to the flawed rebuild.

We did it again after sleeving all 12 cylinders. It foamed until the pump was properly rebuilt, but none in the last 9 years. Overheating has never occurred since either.

No matter how many times you flush, boil out or rod water passages there is no better way to gauge and improve long term coolant issues than to install the cleanable GANO see through filters. For us the effectiveness and monitoring ease is worth the small point deduction for authenticity.

Dave Stevens

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I use in the cars in my collection a very strong mixture of StaClean antifreeze and deionized water.This product is used by Rolls Royce,Hispano Suiza collectors and those who restore P51 Mustang airplanes and it goes for a very long time especially on a car in storage.StaClean has a website and for a fee can even do a chemical analysis of the coolant solution.The product has a propylene glycol base so should not be toxic to pets.

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A question for y’all chemists out there. Does ionised water “hunger”” to re ionise itself by acquiring ions from the metal in the engine & thus causing some sort of erosion? Question 2. Is distilled water the same chemically the same as de ionised water? There seems to be a lot of advice out there to avoid these in our cooling systems.

On the subject of Propylene glycol

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it must be non toxic as it is an additive in my “”ethanol free”” mouthwash. I guess that means that I won’t freeze

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but will I foam at the mouth??? Cheers from the Land of Oz

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Jak.”

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We use ethylene glycol in large engine cooling systems which are unpressurized with complete success. Foaming can be caused by faults in the water pump as David Stevens stated earlier. Someone suggested it can be caused by leaking packing which allows the pump to suck in and entrain air. One also has to consider the possibilities of head gasket leaks, cracks or porosity in block or head; of course these faults usually manifest in other ways as well.

I have a technical report from a major engine manufacturer which states the following:

“Soft waters (like distilled, ion exchanged, reverse osmosis and rain water)with a total hardness close to 0 °dH [German degrees hardness] have the ability to dissolve oxygen and carbon dioxide from the air, which quite rapidly lowers the pH levels and increases the corrosive effect of these waters.”

This document also warns against the corrosivity of chlorides in water/ coolant.

personally I would consider using one of the coolants made for aluminum engines, such as Mercedes-Benz coolant (which is the same as Zerex G-5 if I recall correctly)with reasonably soft tap water or else purchase it premixed to the desired concentration (as we purchase our coolants). As my car is all iron, I use the old-fashioned green stuff.

Remember glycol lowers the cooling ability of plain water while decreasing the freeze temperature, so use the concentration which will give adequate freeze protection and no more. Most places do not require 50% glycol for adequate freeze protection.

I offer this with the usual caveats, and only hope it can help someone.

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Rolls Royce engines can have aluminum and that is why StaClean is used by many of the owners.Distilled water I have read and have been told can make the solution act like a battery.It has been suggested to use the dionized water and in fact offer a mix using using this water.Hispano Suiza engines have a coating on the coolant chambers which with traditional antifreeze can be compromised.I learned about this product from the owner of a Rolls Royce Silver Ghost.Some of the modern antifreezes are not good for earlier automobiles and there have been some that can clog up early radiators.

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I use the Evans Waterless Coolant in five of my six cars. Have not installed it in my latest car because I may pull the radiator and have it boiled out.

Since the Evans raises the boiling temp of the coolant, there is less pressure in my modern cars, and have not noticed any adverse effects on the 49 & 53 Bentleys.

My main reason for using is to avoid corrosion, especially if something happens to me and the cars get stored for a long period of time.

We are suppose to change the coolant every two years due to the corrosive inhibitors deteriorate over time and become non existent in the long term.

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I have heard that Evans Coolant can seep but I like the idea of no water.My only concern when driving is that the car could get so hot before boiling due to a higher temp that damage could take place before you would notice it.I monitor my Staclean solution which is about 70-75 percent Staclean and the rest water as right now the cars are stored.I monitor it for protection and PH and it is like new.I was told some water is needed to activate inhibitors.Big trucks also use this products and that is theor main market.You do not want to store a cooling system without something as the air will cause corrosion.

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I run Perrier……..NOTHING BUT THE BEST FOR A Pierce!

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I’m with you Ed!!!

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