Correct topping material for a1937 coupe

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Hi,

Can anyone tell me what is the correct topping material for my 1937 1702 Coupe? There is no remnants of what was there before and I am faced with a gaping hole where the roof should be. The are several choices including:

Black colonial grain vinyl topping material

Black levant grain vinyl topping material

Black long cobra grain vinyl topping material

Black pebble grain topping material

Black short cobra grain vinyl topping material

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

Steve

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The original material was called Pantasote. The only reproduction of this material that I have found is Jonarts Classics, Pantasote Replication, #200/B. I obtained this material from Eric Haartz, at Haartz Corp., Acton, MA.

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Joe Malone has been doing a very scholarly job of trying to find

a replacement fabric for his 836A. He is basing his choices on

original material from un-restored cars. Too my knowledge, he

avoided the Haartz material after a conversation with Eric. When he

locates the closest material he can find, several of us will purchase

it. It might be to your advantage to contact him. His experiences so

far, would make an interesting article. My ’36 with 55,000 miles on

it, had the original top rip at 45 MPH, so I’m in line.

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Eric is a great resource for us early car guys, he helped me tremendously getting a period correct fabric for some very early tops, even to the point where he “restamped” the surface on 40 yards of special material. A lot of the discussion was about Pantasote, which was widely used in the teens and twenties. To my knowledge and research, there is no exact current match to that original material, what is called “replicated Pantasote” is basically a vinyl material. By the 1930’s, vinyl was in use (it was “invented” in the 1920’s), so a light grain vinyl top would not be out of place.

On a side note, the insert top was wood slats, chicken wire, padding, and top….on the 1935 coupe which I owned a while back, the chicken wire was the antenna for the radio, isolated from the top metal and only touching the wood…..

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Thank you all for the information. Can anyone tell me which grain pattern is most like the original, colonial, long or short grain cobra,pebble, or levant?

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David,

Thanks for the side info on the antenna. I haven’t started on the body yet but noticed the ant. lead going up the RF pillar and didn’t know where it ended. Jim

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Steve,

I have been doing research on the correct top insert texture for my ’34 and other Pierce-Arrows of the 30’s.I began with the Message board posting from Walter McDaniel related to his ’34 which stated that the Pantasote Replication material from Haartz was the correct material. I then received a set of images (thank you) from Walter taken of his original top insert. The images were confirmed by Paul Johnson and George Teebay as matching their original’35 and ’34 top inserts respectively. When the images were sent to Eric Haartz, he agreed that the linear texture evident was not a match for the random grain of the Pantasote Replication (or LeBarron Bonny’s T-5)but also suggested that an approximation of the texture might be achieved by his plant with some adjustments to the rollers. In addition, Paul Johnson stated that the random type texture had been used on earlier Pierces. I would like to establish both when the year of the transition and obtain confirmations of the texture as well as a sample so that we can get it into Eric’s hands.

The computer is playing games today but I will attempt to post Walter’s images.

Joe

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Attached is a picture when I was trying to match original Pantasote material….what you see on the right side of the photograph is original Pantasote. This material was made by laying a water resistant coating on fabric. The random pattern you see is partly the fabric showing through, partly the uneven coating, and partly age, although the top material of that particular top was very well preserved. If Eric can duplicate the look of that material, I would be very interested, as it’s correct for so many early tops and top inserts. I worked with Eric to make a replicated Pantasote with a whipcord backing, but his guys were still not able to really get the true look of the original. He took some grained top material, and “melted” and restamped the surface with a smoother pattern; a happy circumstance was that in the right light some of the original grain could be seen, which was similar to the fabric grain you’d see on original material. The second picture shows the two early tops I did with this material.

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Here is the fabric picture that I thought was going to post in the previous post….

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I have a 1934 12 and and two 840As. Both need new top material. I am interested in purchasing sufficient material to do all three. If enough of us contact Eric and place orders, is it likely he will be encouraged to do one run for all who need the top material?

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Louis,

Yes, I would think that Eric would be willing to accommodate us especially as a special run grew in size but to proceed we need to establish with certainty the actual correct material texture and also if Eric’s company can reproduce a good facsimile.

That said, good samples of original top insert material are needed or at the least good photographs of original mid to later 30’s top inserts.

I have still been unsuccessful in attaching the images of Walter McDaniel’s top insert.

Joe

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Does my 27 Series 80 Sedan have the same material? I thought (guessing) mine was original but it appears to be more “ribbed”” than your picture David. I will try to get a close up picture tomorrow afternoon.”

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Here is one of two images that Joe Malone tried to post.

Greg Long

Correction: There appears to be some problem with posting photos at this time.

I tried reducing the image size to under 500Kb with no luck.

Greg

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Joe & Greg,

Email me the photo. I’ll try to figure out what is going on….

Paul

[email protected]

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This is the photo Joe & Greg were trying to upload….

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Paul, thank you,

This is an image of Walter McDaniel’s original 1934 Top Insert. Please note in the bottom left of the image the distinct linear texture. This texture is NOT what you see in a Pantasote Replication or in the LeBarron Bonney T-5.

I would ask those of you who have original tops ( especially in the 30’s) to confirm or deny the match of you top insert texture with the image above. I believe you will soon see a second image.

P.S. Paul tells me that the file was too large to permit posting. He used a period correct pixel shoehorn to make it work.Thanks again.

Joe

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This is the “other”” picture of Walt’s top….”

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This second image (above) of Walter’s top insert will show the linear texture best if you enlarge, drag the cropping in the lower right to reveal the right hand side of the image which shows a good view of the texture.

Your comments and samples please so we can establish what is correct for our kids.

Joe Malone

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Here are three shots of the 33 CB we picked up last summer.

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