Correct topping material for a1937 coupe

[Author nameAuthor names are only available to PAS members.]

Last one.

[Author nameAuthor names are only available to PAS members.]

The molding around the top insert in the above photos is not original which probably indicates that the insert had been replaced. The material appears to be Pantasote type which would not be correct for 1933.

[Author nameAuthor names are only available to PAS members.]

What is correct for 1937?

[Author nameAuthor names are only available to PAS members.]

Paul, I agree the molding has been replaced. The top looks like a factory top to me, or a very early replacment. I thought it may have been a case of resealing a leak. My factory top on my 1933 1247 custom was very smooth with almost no grain. The factory top on my 1936 1602 had a fairly heavy grain. We spent a lot of time and effort and could not get an match to the factory material. Thus I used a LaBaron-Bonny supplied top material. The car is so tall you need to stand on the running boards to see it. The 33 club broughm is very low and thus what ever we put on it will be as close to factory as we can find. The material on Walter’s top is what I remember from my 1933 1247 but not my 1936 1602. Ed.

[Author nameAuthor names are only available to PAS members.]

By way of furthering the conversation attached will be an image of a top insert material taken from Bob and Diane Koch’s 1937 1703.

[Author nameAuthor names are only available to PAS members.]

And this image shows a side by side comparison of Haartz Corporation’s Jonarts Classics black Pantasote Replication #200/457 on the left and a similar but not the same offering from LeBarron Bonney ,T-5.

If this texture of material is the one used on top inserts of earlier Pierce-Arrows, let’s try to establish the year(s) of transition.

Joe Malone

[Author nameAuthor names are only available to PAS members.]

The T-5 from LeBarron Bonney is, naturally, on the right of the above image and both textures are what I have referred to as ‘random’.

At first glance it would appear that these random textures transitioned sometime in the late 20s and/or up to 1933 to the more linear texture shown in Walter McDaniel’s 1934 top image to a later texture, kind of a basket weave, as seen in Bob and Diane Koch’s 1937top sample image.

Let’s get out our cameras please and fill in the blanks with regard to both correct texture and years of transition.

Thank you,

Joe Malone

Joe Malone

[Author nameAuthor names are only available to PAS members.]

Thanks to David Schultz we have a sample(see image) from the top insert of his original 1936 1601 which, while maybe not a match to Walter McDaniel’s material, closely resembles it. Both are linear and in one primary direction The sample of Bob Koch’s is also linear but in two directions creating a basket weave / waffle pattern.

The linear pattern in the McDaniel sample has been confirmed both by George Teebay (1934 840A Silver Arrow) and Paul Johnson (1935 845)as matching the textures of their original tops.

So while we don’t have definitive answers, there is a linear trend evident. Any photos or samples that will assist in this research would be appreciated. Think about the future; those writing on the Message Board in 20 years will only have a much more difficult time in establishing this detail of Pierce-Arrow history.

Joe Malone

[Author nameAuthor names are only available to PAS members.]

This is Joe’s picture…..

[Author nameAuthor names are only available to PAS members.]

Thanks to Jim Hycner and a sample from his newly acquired original and lovely 1926 Series 80 Coach we now have a sample of an earlier top material. What is interesting is that it has a similar, but not the same, wide spaced, thick and thin linear pattern of the later enclosed vehicles and, as opposed to the later vehicles, the grain runs front to back.

We might have expected a more random texture as previously postulated but it seems that part of the confusion may be due to the fact that: a)Pantasote Corporation ( a brand) would have produced a number of different textures(styles) within that brand b) similar named textures would vary between manufacturers. In fact, Eric Haartz has stated that the Hycner example (above) would have been labeled a ‘long grain cobra’ at the time of its use even though it neither displays the waviness of the grain nor the depth of the texture as seen in contemporary examples.

So again, let’s work to accumulate more data points so that Eric can reproduce as close an approximation to our top and top insert needs as possible.

Joe

[Author nameAuthor names are only available to PAS members.]

The image accompanying the Post above is in fact the Jim Hycner top material.

Thanks Jim,

Joe

[Author nameAuthor names are only available to PAS members.]

Well, going to bring this subject back up to the top.

I’ve had a couple of discussions with Eric Haartz over the last year, and getting something replicated is probably very low on his list of priorities, and his production facilities are very busy so getting a “short” run inserted is not feasible, it seems. He’s usually at Hershey and I’ll probably discuss it with him again, but……

So, in light of that, and the fact that I need material for a 1934 top insert now, has anyone come to a conclusion of what an acceptable material would be?

[Author nameAuthor names are only available to PAS members.]

David,

I was reviewing my collection of samples for top insert materials and took a second look at one supplied by Restoration Specialties and Supply of Windber, PA. This particular sample I received from these good people about two years ago and, as with many things, and people for that matter, my opinion has changed…..somewhat, and for the better.

I too spoke with Eric Haartz at Hershey this year and with an anticipated delay of something like 18 months some alternatives are starting to look better.

So, this sample that I reference is called by RS&S Short Grain Black ( I Believe)-Sedan Decking,Pg 113- and while it is a reasonable fourth or fifth alternative, it does have , in my opinion, two virtues: a) the texture is much finer and not as deeply embossed than any other of the contemporary Cobras and therefore far less obtrusive and, b) the sheen is far more subdued that any of the other contemporary Cobras and for that reason far less obtrusive.

It does not provide the semi-parallel and irregular linearity that we seek but at least it won’t scream at you.

RS&S will provide samples and I expect that if you wanted one larger that the 3″x3″ sample that I received, they would comply with your request.

Let me know please what you think.

Joe Malone

[Author nameAuthor names are only available to PAS members.]

Folks,

For those of you looking for a closer approximation of the top insert material for Pierce-Arrows of the 30s and, it would appear, of the 20s, allow me to inform you that I had a conversation with Eric Haartz of The Haartz Corporation this past week ((9/18/170. I have had this conversation with Eric before and he appreciates the lack of choices currently available in terms of both pattern and sheen. It would appear that we may expect a good replication of the material we want for our vehicles in the upcoming (2018) year.

Eric’s telephone number, should you wish to encourage him in his efforts, is: (978)264-2600.

Joe Malone

[Author nameAuthor names are only available to PAS members.]

I am interested in sourcing top material for a 1937 1702. Does anyone have Eric Haartz’s contact information?

[Author]

Posts