Does the Parts & Service list calls out wrong bearings?

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    I want to replace the bearings in the engine fan assembly on my 1933 1236. The PAS Parts and Service list says that for 1933 eight and twelve cylinder cars I should use Timken 09078 and 090194 and suggest Old Car Bearings. George at Old Car Bearings returned my call promptly and informed me that he had the bears in stock and would ship same day. That was Friday and they arrived today (great service) but unfortunately they are tapered roller bearings and much narrower and larger in diameter than those in my assembly. The bearings I need are STRAIGHT roller bearings about 1.5 inches long. The assembly takes two sleeves, two roller bearings, one thrust bearing with tabs and one thrust bearing without tabs that goes between the roller bearings. Does anyone have a part number for the correct bearings and sleeve? I see the same bearing is listed for 1932, is that correct?. Assuming that there is not another explanation, who do i notify to get the web sight up dated with the correct bearing information.


    Hello Eddie,

    Thanks for bringing up this issue. I am sorry that you encountered an error. The PAS Parts and Services Directory is a collaboration by the membership for the mutual benefit of the membership. This is why it is important when you see things that you know are incorrect to let us know. I appreciate you taking the time to document what you found in your experiment.

    I have been editing the P&SD for the past several years, I will be glad to either remove the error in the listing to prevent future problems. Let’s see if another member will write in with a correction, and I would be pleased to substitute the correct information.

    The other thing is George may have a correct listing through his resources. I have asked him in the past for a copy of the Pierce Arrow section of his old bearing catalogs, but he has understandably not wanted to give away part of his value add that he brings.

    Happy Motoring,

    Chris Diekman


    Eddie and Chris,

    Those numbers (09078 and 090194) are from a **1934** Timken roller bearing catalog that I acquired; I made a spreadsheet of the P-A applications and that was the basis for the table in a PASB a couple of years ago, and probably for the PS&D listings. Listings in that catalog are limited to **roller** bearings and their races. There are also listings for P-A trucks and for other makes of cars, and I’m happy to look up Timken numbers in that catalog for any member. One good thing about Timken is that their bearing numbers have pretty much remained the same for 80-90 years; another is that Timken was P-A’s OE supplier.

    I have no idea why your bearing arrangement is different from the Timken listing, which was compiled when your car was only one year old. Perhaps someone re-engineered yours during that car’s lifetime, or perhaps P-A did so as a service modification. From disassembling several fans, I have indeed seen different bearing arrangements on fan hubs that have similar external appearance–there ARE differences, possibly indicating running changes from the factory.

    On my own fans, I’ve been unhappy with the factory sealing (usually just a felt washer and a metal slinger), which causes some oil to be slung around the engine compartment, even after I’ve added just a small amount of oil, then rotated the aperture to the 7-o’clock position and let it drain overnight. Gradually, I’ve been replacing the bearings and shafts with post-war water pump shafts and sealed bearing assemblies, which will never need lubrication or replacement for the rest of my own lifetime. Our member Jerry Washburn in CA identified the correct replacement parts and did the machine work for me (he also re-engineers water pumps using sealed bearings and modern seals, doing away with packing and making the grease cup merely decorative).

    Chris, can you add a caution to the PASB listing for fan bearings?

    Sorry for anyone’s inconvenience.



    A postscript to my last:

    I’ll be happy to send the Excel spreadsheet on P-A (only) Timkens numbers from that 1934 catalog to any member requesting it. Chris, yours is on the way. :-)



    Dear George,

    Without the effort you and many others have put into sharing information there would be far fewer Pierce Arrow cars on the road today. I highly value and appreciate your contribution. When I spoke to George he confirmed that the bearings listed should have been correct according to his resources. I sent drawing of the bearing in my fan assembly to him and he called me saying that he was able to identify the bearings and sleeves. they are on their way to me now. When i get them i will see if they are correct and if they are I will let you know. Perhaps the solution is a footnote to the list. I would love to have a copy of you excell spreadsheet.



    I just emailed you the spreadsheet. Good luck and please keep us all posted!


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