Greetings from a new member

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Frist, I want to wish everyone a happy and healthy New Year. I am a new member to the PAS. I have been involved in the car hobby for a few decades, but most of my cars have been more modern, mostly from the ’50s and ‘60s. I have always been in awe of the Pierce-Arrow cars as one of the finest cars every produced. Over the last year or so I have seen a few Pierce-Arrow roadsters for sale and these have peaked my curiosity and interest in getting to know more about these cars. A Pierce-Arrow would be a whole new experience for me. I am now contemplating the purchase of one. As a first step to get better educated, I joined the PAS. Scouring the PAS web site has been very helpful. I have also read up as much as I can on the cars, but I find the information limited.

Currently, I am considering a 1931-1933 roadster. I think I would prefer a 12 cylinder to an 8 cylinder car, but this is based on no real knowledge, only that having a 12 cylinder car sounds more interesting. So, any and all information any member can give me regarding what to look for, what to be aware of, what to be concerned about, etc. and any leads on an early 1930’s roadster would be much appreciated. I noticed that the national meeting is in Buffalo this summer and I hope to attend to meet many of you.

Regards,

Robert

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Robert, as I am sure you have noticed, Pierce open cars can be quite expensive. Pierce open cars from 1929 and 1930 come up for sale once in a while. By 1931, open cars get much more scarce. From 32 and later, they seldom change hands. Many times they are spoken for years in advance. Then when you start talking a V-12, it can be a budget buster. A 32 V-12 sold at the Hershey auction in October for 407 thousand. It had quite a bit wrong with it, incorrect and missing parts, and it was a 35 year old restoration with 55 thousand miles on it. Recently a 34 V-12 needing a fair amount of work sold for over 500 K. An eight can be bought for less, but they also seldom change hands. I don’t post this to discourage you, but just as a bit of information where they are trading at now. There is a very nice 29 for sale on cape cod in the 140’s. Also, there are several fake or cut down cars out there. One currently for sale by a dealer. You should hire someone who know’s Pierce cars before you purchase ANY open car. Welcome to the club. See you in Buffalo. Ed

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Robert, welcome to the PAS! You will find this board full of competent folks willing to help you with your PA questions.

I think Ed will also say ‘good things come to those who wait’ IE, some cars sell at silly high prices that may be discouraging but then once in a while you’ll see a real jem of a car at a very fair price-they are out there!

Best of luck in your pursuit.

Best-John

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Ed,

Thank you very much for the response. Rather than discouragement, your response is exactly what I was hoping for. I need to be an educated consumer with my eyes wide open, and you are helping me become one. I have found that good quality cars hold their value and are “cheaper” in the long run. I am not in any rush and I am willing to wait for the right car at a fair price. Based on you response, my search will likely be for an 8 cylinder car. While I want to experience Pierce-Arrow ownership and driving, I do not think I need to immediately jump into the deep end!

Is the picture you posted the 29 for sale on cape cod? It looks like a beautiful car and pushes the right buttons for me. If so, who can I contact for more information on that car?

Robert

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Welcome to the P-A-S Robert!

There is a ’29 listed on Hemming’s.

James

http://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/carsforsale/pierce_arrow/133/1692132.html

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Hello Robert, welcome to the PAS. Hang on, you will be getting a lot of info over the next few days.

When I first owned a Pierce and wanted to learn about the cars, what I found was that I needed to drive quite a few different model year cars to appreciate the differences, and from this experience, I learned why a very nice ’29 roadster can sell for ‘only’ $140K, but a ’32, V12 roadster [very rare, only a handful built] can bring $407K !

And how a ’33,’34, ’35 and later convertible coupe or convertible sedan can bring $300K and up.

Since you are familiar with the cars of the 50’s and 60’s, you might need to drive a car from the late ’20’s and early 30’s, in order to appreciate the major differences in driving an early car, compared to a later car from the ’50’s. . There was a rapid increase in sophistication of the cars from ’25 through ’36. The driving experience changed [improved] accordingly. A ’29 while it has an 8 cylinder engine, it still drives and shifts much like a mid ’20’s car. The cars improved until a ’33 is a very polished and sophisticated car, and a real pleasure to drive.

The steering system improved with different steering gear boxes, different steering geometry and different tires. Steering went from a two handed firm grip on the wheel to a comfortable one handed grip.

The transmissions changed from a pure ‘crash box’ with straight-cut gears, which means that all ratios had a whine or gear noise except for direct or top gear. Then transmissions had angle-cut and herringbone-cut gears, which made for at least one intermediate gear ratio being quiet, in addition to top gear.

Next came Free Wheeling, which allowed for silent shifting, but had no engine braking when freewheeling is in use. Then came synchromesh on 2nd and 3rd [top] gear. This made the transmission much like most transmissions from the ’50’s and later. They are much easier to drive for most people than an early transmission.

The engines became much more ‘automatic’, they needed much less driver interaction than the earlier engines.

Prior to ’29, the carburetors had mixture adjustment from the driver’s seat. These adjustments were not cut and dry. You had to know when, why and how much to change the fuel mixture.

From ’29 on, the carburetors had fixed jets, and had fairly sophisticated air-correction jetting, so any mixture changes were either automatic, or done by a mechanic for significant altitude changes.

The bodies and interiors got wider too, and some driver’s seat adjustment was available from ’33 on, to accommodate a tall driver. Roadsters became Convertible Coupes, with roll-up windows instead of side curtains.

Engines from ’33 had hydraulic valve lifters, which eliminated the need for periodic valve adjustments. Downdraft carburetors also started in ’33.

Brakes improved all through the years. The ’33-’35 brakes were Stewart Warner servo power brakes, probably the most powerful power-assisted manually actuated brakes ever.

Hope this information helps, and starts you on the path of educating yourself about the differences and nuances of the 8 and 12 cylinder Pierces.

Please note: there are quite a few of my opinions mixed in with the factual info above. So there certainly will be differing opinions from other PAS members.. What you can look forward to, is forming your own opinions !!

Greg Long

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Robert I’ve owned over 80 classic cars and have belonged to many clubs. There’s no better car or group of people than these folks here at the PAS.

tom griffith/madison wisconsin.

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Greg,

Thank you very much for that excellent description of Pierce driveability. Having only had the chance to drive Series 33/36s, it gave me a better sense of the changes.

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Any PAS member who is in Western Mass is invited to stop by may garage and take one of my cars for a spin. John Cislak is less than 5 miles away and often has several Pierce Arrow’s under repair or restoration. You have never seen piles of Pierce stuff until you visit him. Currently I have a 1936 V-12 and a 1932 eight registered and running. Stop by and go for a drive, cars are only fun when you drive and share them. My best to all. Ed.

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Greg, thank you for the excellent description. These responses are better than anything I could have imagined. They are extremely insightful, helpful, knowledgeable, and best of all friendly.

Ed, Thank you for such a generous offer. I will seriously consider taking you up on that invitation. I may need to make a special trip (when the weather is nicer) just to visit you and drive a couple of Pierce-Arrows.

Again, to all, I appreciate the warm welcome.

Robert

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PS Robert, that car is one of several very nice Pierce V-12 owned by member Sam Lehrman. It is a 1935 Chicago Auto Show car. Below is a photo taken in February 1935 at the show. The car was a bright canary yellow.

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Hello Robert,

Welcome to PAS!

If you’re in the vicinity of Scottsdale, AZ on Saturday, January 17th, you may want to check out lot #143, a 1933 LeBaron Twelve convertible sedan.

Good luck with your “hunt” and perhaps we’ll meet you this coming July in Buffalo – Stu Blair, Cincinnati, Ohio

http://www.goodingco.com/vehicle/1933-pierce-arrow-1247-lebaron-convertible-sedan/

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And FYI, verbiage from Gooding & Co’s auction listing:

“Countering the multi-cylinder challenge issued by Cadillac in 1930, Pierce- Arrow launched two new V-12 models for 1932. A “clean-sheet” design with mighty performance, the Pierce-Arrow Twelve was more than a worthy competitor. Legendary racer Ab Jenkins drove a V-12 roadster to a 24-hour average speed of 112.91 mph, repeatedly raising the mark to an ultimate 127 mph by 1934.

Enhancements for 1933 brought displacement and power increases for the redesignated 1242 and 1247 models. Despite prominent placement within the White House vehicle fleet, buyers of these elite cars were fewer than expected. Today, the CCCA Register lists just seven 1242s and seven longer-wheelbase 1247s from 1933. Numbered 3550092, this 1933 Pierce-Arrow 1247 carries elegant and versatile convertible sedan bodywork custom-built by LeBaron. According to conversations with Pierce-Arrow authority Bernie Weis, 3550092 passed through several noted collections during its lifetime. A sound, well-maintained example, the regal Pierce-Arrow received a new convertible top during the 2000s and comprehensive detail work completed in 2008 by Blairsville, Pennsylvania’s Chuck Vatter. The consignor acquired this exceedingly rare 1247 in 2009 and has carefully maintained it ever since. Rare, striking, and technically sophisticated, it stands proudly as a landmark of the Classic Era.”

Also, a YouTube video of this same Pierce at the Hillsborough Concours:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rzAG3iT80E

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Hello Robert.

I looked closely at the ’29 roadster for sale on Hemmings classifieds. It appears to be a VERY nice car.

My ’29 roadster is a driver, a 50 year-old restoration that still passes a ’20 foot’ test..

This blue ’29 for sale is cheap at $135K, I don’t think a person could restore a driving, complete roadster with paint, chassis, engine, interior, chrome etc for much less than the asking price. So, the car is almost ‘free’.

I have both a ’29 roadster and a ’33 836 Club Sedan, and from driving those and a few other Pierces owned by other PAS members, have formed my opinions and had my experience with these model year cars.

Greg Long

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I looked into that dark blue ’29 @ $130K, spoke at length with him. I happen to know know he’ll take much less than what he’s asking. tom griffith

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Who doesn’t go for canary yellow on that ’35 show car convertible? It

would sure give my garage a sunny disposition. Welcome to our

association of dreamers, Mr. Brown, where the past is in our future.

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Tony, another great line from you. Happy New Year!

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I think this is the car of which Ed is speaking (Hershey).

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I love that car! I saw it at Hershey. super fantastic.

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So, to be clear, the gray/black roadster (V12) shown in the last picture is a fake?

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