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Tagged: DMV, North Carolina, Title, VIN Number
In trying to research a bit more on the 1937 P-A I acquired earlier, the old Washington State title listed the “Engine/Chassis number” (ie, the VIN”) as WN5501943678. This doesn’t correspond to anything on the car that I can see. The engine # is 409065 and the body tag # is 544-S-18; the chassis plate is missing. I would think the state police would have looked for some readily visible number for the title but I can’t find any casting numbers, stampings, etc that match. It’s not an assigned Washington state number as the Washington DMV says those start with “WA”. Any thoughts anyone?
Frederick,
The serial number definitely is not a Pierce-Arrow Serial Number. Based on the engine number, the correct serial number would be something like 317001X. Using the engine number of adjacent engines, I think yours would have been 3170017 or 3170018. Engine number and Body tag appear correct for your car.
Dave
Hi Dave, thanks for the reply. I agree with everything you said and had already come to similar conclusions. My question is really “is there any Pierce-Arrow stamping number or part number that might correspond with the number presented on the Washington state title”? The number should correspond to something identifiable on the car, and the most likely thing would be some number stamped or cast into a part, and I would go further in speculating that it should be something fairly easy to see (not something that would require the car to be on a lift or require any significant removal of disassembly of bits to find). But perhaps not, and it could be some obscure frame stamping, etc.  The car is pretty much complete and intact and I don’t think I’ve missed any tags. If you or anyone who has restored or disassembled one of these cars has a guess, I will check it out!
Thanks,
Fred
Hi Fred,
Sorry I can’t give you anything more on the serial number of your car. That number doesn’t look like any I have seen on a Pierce-Arrow. I believe it is an assigned number. A person you might contact is Bob Koch. He did a full restoration on his ’37 and also lives in Washington so might be familiar with your car. His info is in the Roster.
Dave
Fred,
When I purchased my ’29, the title used the engine number, not the chassis tag number. I thought it a good idea to get the title changed, so if I had to do an engine swap <shudder> I would still have a valid title.
The process was less complicated than I expected. The DMV tag & title office here in Cary told me to go to the one on Avent Ferry Rd, where they could verify engine and chassis numbers. This office was polite and efficient; one of the Troopers on duty came out to “inspect” the car and verify the two numbers matched. Next step was to purchase a small bond for the 90(?) day period that the “true” owner could make their claim. After that time expired, the title was issued to me and problem solved. It was clear they dealt with odd title issues frequently.
North Carolina has multiple types of titles that may be appropriate; Abandoned, Salvaged (from flood), Reconstructed (junked or wrecked), Modified (hot rod from many parts, and likely the type you would use). There may well be others, so contact NCDMV to find out. Their main office is/was on New Bern Ave.
Best Regards for 2026,
Herb
<p style=”text-align: left;”>Thanks, Dave. And thanks, Herb. I’ve already had the inspector come out and look over the car [it’s not going anywhere in it’s current state! :)] I’ve already obtained the bond – it’s required for 3 years, actually. The DMV paperwork is a bit of a pain, however. As an aside, past experience with our DMV registering and titling a Shelby Cobra Daytona coupe continuation car was truly unpleasant, as was another experience with a 35th Anniversary Morgan Plus 8 where the VINs were non-standard. In any event DMV readily located the vehicle by the year/make/engine number and has assigned a value (for the bond) and has stated they will use the engine number for a new title.</p>
Thanks,
Fred
Fred,
Back in the day, engine numbers were often used for the title. OK as long as the engine doesn’t get changed.
It really depends on which clerk you get. I think some go out of their way to be difficult. Calif. DMV has an online list of all transactions and what paperwork you need to get it done. I can usually get stuff done in one trip. I have had clerks argue that I needed more. The manager usually agrees with what I have.
Interesting about the Morgan Plus 8. I also have a Pus 8 35th Anniv. and it has the standard 17 character VIN and I had no trouble with DMV.
Dave
Dave, the Morgan was an interesting story. The VIN was “incorrectly” stamped at the factory and didn’t fit into the formula for VINs. NC DMV told me the car was “Grey market” and the inspector literally put a hand on her gun and threatened to confiscate the car, despite the fact that the car had all its federal plates and stickers to the contrary. Morgan was kind enough to provide documentation that the guy who stamps the VINs “drank a bit” and was likely intoxicated and incorrectly stamped the plate. (Seems a perfectly Morgan situation!!) They provided me with a whole new set of VIN plates tags and stickers. NC DMV said I would have to disassemble the entire car and reassemble it in front of them to accept the new tags. But after some “discussion” agreed to title the car with the incorrect VIN. I took that Morgan with me to California, by the way, and it was flagged there as well, but they titled the car no problem when their inspection confirmed the number on the NC title and car matched. On my Cobra Daytona, NC DMV inspector said the car was a fake “because Cobras are only roadsters” and refused to title it on that basis. Took the better part of a year to straighten these knowledgeable folks out.