PAMCC, Aircraft Division?

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I just acquired an object that states “Pierce Arrow Motor Car Co., Aircraft Division”.

I don’t have a feeling that it’s real old, just not sure until it’s in my hands, but I’ve never seen nor heard Pierce associated with aviation.

Any thoughts?

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Ask Tony Costa…….when we were out to Watkins Glen he swore my V-12 was flying………..😋 . I have never seen anything aircraft related. What MAY be possible is a modified motorcycle engine like they did with the Hendersons. But that is just conjecture. Ed.

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I know you fly in your Pierce’s, Ed. You’re just like a friend of mine who has a little collection of cars, he drives on a LOT of AACA tours, and has a small restoration shop in Pennsylvania take care of his cars. The owner of the restoration shop, last year at Hershey, asked me how good a friend I was of the fellow, and I said we’re very close. The fellow then asked me “please, get Marty to lighten up on the accelerator pedal, he breaks them and I have to fix”….

Yes, some motorcycle engines were put in planes, as well as Ford engines..the Pietenpol was the infamous Model A engine powered plane..

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Somewhere I read that Pierce-Arrow’s Chief Engineer, David Fergusson, had worked closely with Orville Wright on the design of aircraft engines in WWI and that the dual ignition features of the Series 32 and 33 Pierce-Arrows of the post war period were a direct result of that partnership. Just like an aircraft, the cars have built in redundancy. You can run on the right bank, the left bank, or both banks of plugs and coils. In the 1990 all-Pierce AQ issue, vol 28, no. 4, p.89, former Pierce employee “Maurice Thorne recalled: Many prominent people who bought Pierce Arrows used to come to the plant to take delivery of the their cars. Orville Wright bought a new Pierce-Arrow every year and it became my privilege to have little special things done to his cars and then hear his suggestions on features he deemed desirable and improvements that should be made.”” My 1922 Series 33 4-pass touring has a modified Cole Aerocar motometer mount. Always made me kind of wonder…….

“

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They also used Pierce-Arrow engines in rum-runners (boats) because they were so powerful and quiet.

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Online research reveals that there was trade magazine hubbub from 1917 through 1919 about PAMCC manufacturing aircraft engines.

Apparently the PAMCC entered in to an agreement to manufacture Hispano-Suiza aircraft engines.

I assume that all of this was to support the war effort for WWI.

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Thanks, Peter, I searched a little but didn’t run across that gem….once I get the item I’ll give my opinion of it and post a picture, it looks much more modern than the late teens, but again, want to hold it in my grubby hand before passing further judgement. I’m still not convinced it’s very old, but it’s just interesting to me that it’s the first object I’ve ever seen that joins the PAMCC and aviation.

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I’ve now had it verified that this object dates to the period Peter mentions, 1917-19, when Pierce was, indeed, preparing to manufacture airplane engines.

If anyone else has any physical item in their collection relating to the Aircraft Division, please let me know, either here or by email. I almost think the object I have is one of a kind, that somehow survived the years and then found it’s way to my grubby hands, but that’s so rarely the case.

Meanwhile, look for an update in a future issue of the Arrow. thanks dc

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In looking through my collection (junk) of Pierce items I noticed I had an employee identification card holder. It says Pierce Arrow Motor Car Co. on the top and Aircraft Division printed in a circle around a star. It looks like it was made by Bastian Bros. Rochester NY, printed so tiny on the bottom of the card.

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Thanks Jeff! Yes, that’s what I have, have never seen one before in many years of Pierce memorabilia collecting. Thanks for letting us know there’s another one! Here’s a picture of mine, plus a “regular”” employee ID holder that came with it….”

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David,

I have the exact same thing, I have know idea where I got mine. Thanks for the photo, now others know what we are describing.

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David –

I’m not sure if this helps answer your question or raises another: the Buffalo factory was used as a “Specialized Depot”” for the 801st Army Air Force from 1946 to 1949.

Brooks”

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Brooks, I guess it does raise the question of the time frame, although it’s hard for me to think that the Army Air Force would use the PAMCC corporate name….but thanks for additional information, the more history the better!

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David

I also have the same item as you pictured. I believe that I got it at a Hershey meet in the 80’soriginally with other items I bought from a stall that was cleaning out their Father’s attic. Supposedly the Father worked for P-A in Buffalo. Included in that buy was original P-A tool drawings they sent out to vendors for quotes. If only P-A memorabilia could talk…

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Neat! It’s interesting that some survived, and found their way to Pierce collectors. Hope you’re doing well, Walt, haven’t talked to you in a while! Seeing some of the P-A tool drawings would be cool!

I have a Pierce Arrow Mechanical Club pin, which Ed Minnie told me was a fairly unusual item. A friend of mine was at a small auction in Ohio, and saw it in a cigar box of stuff. Another bidder bought the box, he walked over and asked if he’d take a dollar for the pin, and the high bidder did so. My friend then gave it to me as a gift. Just funny how stuff finds a home!

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I only know of two mechanical pins, mine and yours.

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Hi Guys,

Here’s a tool drawing. Kind of fun, I think we got this at Hershey years ago.

Chris Diekman

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Easier to read version.

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It says full black finish. Matte or glossy? Does this apply to later cars, like a ’29, and to all tools in the pouch, or just certain ones? I know, another can of worms is opened…

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The tools that were painted had a very thin black ‘wash’ on them.. about like the ‘see-through’ black paint on the frame and chassis of a modern car.. It is so thin that most cars in the midwest and northeast don’t have any black paint showing on the frame and chassis after one or two winters. There is nothing but rust.

The black paint on the tools I have is glossy, but, because it is so thin, the surface of the paint is not smooth or polished, because the surface of the forged and stamped tool is not polished glossy-smooth.

I do have several tools that were nickel plated, usually pliers, and occasionally a screwdriver are the ones that get a dull nickel finish. I think Pierce called this ‘Tumbled Nickel’ or ‘Butler Nickel’. Definitely not a glossy shiny nickel like a radiator shell or headlight rim.

Greg Long

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