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I am seeking advice on replacing the carburetor on my 1931 model43 tourer. The UU2 which was removed for a service is beyond local repair and I missed the one on eBay about a month ago. My nearest classic car garage proposes to fit an SU with appropriate jets to keep my car on the road in the hope that another UU2 becomes available. I use the car for driving so am not picky about its being altered provided it is not permanently changed. Would much appreciate advice on the proposed replacement, summer in the south west of Scotland is a fleeting and unreliable season and I would like to enjoy the car while the season lasts. I am new to Pierce-Arrows and they are very rare here.
You can buy a correct carb, a UUR2 from member John Cislak. He makes more than 100 parts for the Stromberg carb series that fit Pierce Arrow. The UU-2 is not correct for your car, and it’s probably not even a Pierce application. He has correct venturies, jets, linkage, choke and air horn, ect in stock. Go to the AACA website and the forum section and type in Stromberg UUR2 in the search engine, you will see more than a dozen photos of his work and parts avaliable. His number is 413-542-9017 eastern time, same as New York City. I was in his shop last week, and there was a customer interested in a UUR-2 for a Stutz, so I am sure he has a carb available. Good luck, Ed.
I’ve mentioned this before, I too have a Model 43 touring/phaeton, and had John Cislak rebuild the carburetor. I was amazed at the difference in how the car both sounds and responds, a great improvement.
A correct UUR2 will set you back quite a few Pound Sterling, but you’ll be very happy if you get one that John has rebuilt.
What is the body number of you car? Just curious to compare to mine, I know Bob Dluhy’s car is within a few numbers of mine…..
Many thanks to both Edgar.R.Minnie11 and David Coco for their helpful comments and advice. I will contact John Cislak and find out price and availability. I am planning to be in the United States around September time and it seems a good idea to collect a UUR2 in person rather than send it to the UK.
David, the body number of my car is 1501340 as far as I know the car was factory modified to right hand drive for export to SouthAfrica. It also has separately mounted headlamps instead of faired into the mudguards as normal Pierce-Arrow.
Did you have any thoughts on the temporary fitting of an SU carburetor?
Without a chassis dyne and a five gas analyzer I would NOT recommend you try it. There are very few competent people on pre war cars today, and it would be easy to end with a disaster. A few years ago, at the PAS meet a carb was swapped out with another identical unit, and the car melted a piston.
Ed,
Not to get to far off track, but what was so different about the “identical” carb that caused such severe engine damage? More to the point of this discussion, how does one ever replace the carb even if it is an “identical” unit safely?
Robert
Sounds like the replacement carb was too lean. That can be caused either by an adjustment, the installation of the wrong jets, or perhaps a poor install that caused a blockage of air somewhere else. It would be interesting to see which piston went south, and whether it is generally lean due to the intake design.
Peter, I have purchased carbs and related pre-war items from Rand Broadstreet. He is in Ohio. His web site is vintagecarb.com phone number 440-786-8141. contact him, he may also have parts or a carb to get you back on the road. Karl
Bob, thanks for the response. So, the lesson to learn is “simply”” to make sure the carb is properly set up prior to instillation and it is properly installed. Nothing mystical here.
Robert”
Robert,
That is certainly the best “first” approach. It all involves starting by doing the initial research to make sure whatever is being replaced, rebuilt, and/or reworked is done commensurate with what Pierce did initially, considering any other modifications such as fuel (ethanol, octane rating, etc.). I certainly yield to others, like Greg Long, who have way more knowledge than I do on these older cars.
Hope you are enjoying that beautiful car of yours!
Bob
Thanks to all who have responded to my message, I am on a steep learning curve and value your experience and the dire warning from Ed Minnie 11. The workshop that has my car will also value your experience, they have several 20s and ’30s Rolls Royces in work and other vintage British machines so I am sure they will understand better than I the risks that should not be taken. Keep telling me stuff, I really am grateful. Peter
Stromberg made many versions of the UU2 and UUR2 carbs. The Studebakers used them, as well as several other makes through the late ’20’s and early 30’s.
Each engine has it’s own needs and requirements. If a carb for a smaller engine is installed on a larger engine, the increased airflow can cause the carb to deliver the wrong fuel/air mixture. IF an engine is run too lean, higher combustion chamber temperatures are the result, and either cracks in the cylinder head or in the block around the valves or a melted piston can result.
The correct and most accurate way to set up the mixture is as Ed said, put the engine on an engine Dynamometer, or put the whole car on a chassis Dynamometer.. AKA : a DYNO.
With an exhaust gas analyser, the mixture can be monitored, and the jetting in the carb changed to make sure
that the engine is not running too lean.
The Pierce Stromberg Carb had the larger, maybe the largest venturi’s available, and had a very large air intake horn compared to the more common UU2s and UUR2’s often found at swap meets and flea markets. The intake air horn is made from zinc, or PotMetal. and they fall apart Classic and Exotics has a reproduction air intake horn available.
The old method of checking the tailpipe for a nice brownish -grey soot, and checking the spark plugs for a nice brownish-gray to dark gray tint doesn’t work very well anymore, most of that soot was from the lead in the fuel, and with unleaded fuel the most common and often the ONLY fuel available, spark plugs burn pure white, and tailpipes can look new for 1000’s of miles.
Peter: I’d call the man Karl suggested, and see what he has to offer, and have patience, a carb will show up, there were a lot of them made. I’d then send it to a rebuilder to make sure it is in operational condition.
Bob: thank you for the kind comment, I hope to continue to learn and pass on what I learn for many years to come.
Greg Long
The UU2 and UUR2 were installed on engines from 198 cid to almost 600 cid, so there were if memory serves me no less than 148 different applications. Issue number one is they fit Bugatti and Duesenberg as well as being the go to carbs for Stutz today. Thus they bring heavy money. Recently I know for a fact that 7 new carb bodies were made successfully for the Dusenberg application, cost of ONLY the body with nothing else was four thousand dollars, and the guy who made them said they lost money on the deal. They only did the project as it was bankrolled by a major collector. There is about 75 to 125 pieces that are chrome or nickel on them, so plating cost is also a major consideration. I see used carbs all over the place for 500 to 2500 in “as found” condition. Usually they are junk, and lots of people end up with two or three bad ones before they get a good one. Be sure to insist you have a money back option to return it before you buy it. If you end up with a Nash or some other smaller car it can be VERY expensive to get it up to correct application. Also, if the throttle shaft is worn, the carb will never idle right unless you machine it and install bushings and a new throttle shaft. All these years later, mostly what people come across is stuff removed for defects in the 60’s and 70’s ………what I like to call floor sweepings. Recently the Bugatti guys are buying up spares fast as they can find them, and with cars that run from 750,000 to 3,000,000 they are driving up prices and making it hard for the Pierce, Stude, and Hupp collectors to find anything at what use to be reasonable prices. I have three on the shelf for spares myself, including a NOS unit still in the box. It’s probably the last one on the planet. Ed
Hello,
This just got listed on Ebay and I thought it is what Pete is looking for.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/STROMBERG-UUR2-CARBURETOR-PIERCE-ARROW-DUESENBERG-BUGATTI-/331878434861
Looks like it may be good, but the application is for a small six. It will cost another 1200 to get it right just in parts, , plus welding and machining as the upper section is not correct and it won’t bolt up to a Pierce. Just another example of buying the right part the first time is always your best value.
Thanks Ed,
Always learning something new on this Forum.
Ken