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My point was that we don’t HAVE 500 posts every few days.
I have been just stating my opinion. I am sure that we will move to the AACA forum regardless of comments, and life will go on. Go for it, if it makes life easier for our volunteers then that’s fine. I do feel that the person paid to “fix” our website has a vested interest in us going there, but so be it.
Yes, I have 8000 posts there, but there have been a lot of compromises along the way, including developing a very thick skin and realizing that many people on that site aren’t on the same wavelength I am. As long as everyone realizes that the door will be open for criticism that’s not always friendly, that’s fine…
Whew. Thank you Jane for taking on the task of responding.
I don’t have the energy to go back and do it point by point, but here are the high points.
PAS Forum read only VS. public post, as we are currently…that’s fine with me, but we’re still talking among ourselves. The ramifications of bringing our posts into the general public, and having them respond, are huge. I’m really not fighting it so much as pointing out that life changes on the AACA forum, and as dramatic as that sounds, just saying…a user has to search for the Pierce forum, on the AACA, you are now a target for those who can figure out how to hit keys on a keyboard….I’ve been there, it’s not real pretty at time….do the benefits outweigh the negative stuff we’ll have to wade through? Maybe, that’s for our Board to decide.
Keep a “fun and happy tone”, well, sure, at times, but there will come a time when we look back and think to ourselves oh my goshenation, why did we go public with this. I’ve spent more than my fair share of time on the AACA forums, a great tool, but can get downright nasty at times.
Sticky with rules? I chuckled at that. Rules for posting are ignored constantly on the AACA forums. You can enforce by deletion, but that can lead to bigger problems too.
I think we’re headed to the AACA forums, you guys in charge seem to be leaning that way, and I know Peter is crawfishing and saying this’ll fix it ( a Lousiana term ). That’s fine, but again, I’ve been very active on the forums, and it’s not always a happy world.
You mention we’re losing 500 posts to the PAS forum every 10-15 days? I’m not understanding that comment.
Mark, I agree that some people want to stay behind a generic profile name and not be identified on the AACA forum.
I will also say that it’s very difficult to do. I started that way on the AACA forum but gave up, as someone called me out by name. All it takes is once and it’s over, then if you change your user name you’ve lost history on the site.
Remember that staying anonymous means not posting pictures of your cars, not talking about specific events or shows where you participated, not talking about the town or area you live in, the list goes on. The old car hobby is too small a group, relatively speaking, for someone not to figure out who you really are.
I think our private forum is going to the AACA forum, it’s already in use there, and I can appreciate the argument that it may give the Society more exposure. I’ve expressed my opinions and that’s that. Life will be different on the AACA forums, but heck, life’s different everywhere now……
That’s great news, I’m very pleased it went to an “end user”!
Looks like a great car, I love my Model 43 phaeton but that would be a close second for sure…..
Congratulations Don! I was so hoping it went to an individual and not a dealer. Great car at a more than fair price, I wish you many years of enjoyment. Although the Model 42 is significantly different than my Model 43, please don’t hesitate to contact me if you need any help with your new toy.
Bill, I see you have no forum replies. I’m no expert on the subject, but have looked into the same thing in the past, and will offer some opinions. Worth nothing, just talking.
I looked up a “Charitable Remainder Trust”, and I don’t think that’s any help at all.
At one time I looked at setting up my collection as a business (since I did buy and sell cars occasionally). You can do that, and deduct expenses and other things, BUT you DO have to buy and sell cars. If set up as a business you HAVE to show a profit, I think it’s 2 out of the first 5 years, or the IRS will not accept it as a business.
Same with using cars for weddings and events, you must get paid for it and show a profit, possible but difficult.
Purely as a hobby, there’s not much you can do tax-wise, other than treat the cars as capital investments. Thus, capital gain and loss rules apply on taxes. Of course, to do that, very clean records must be kept on each car, no “cash on the hood” deals!
Just my opinion, none of above is legal advice. Good luck! David C.
Peter G. brought us up on the AACA forums, though didn’t call us out by name. He obviously has a vested interest in getting us on those forums. I replied with my thoughts. I realize that I’m probably in the minority and that we’re headed to the AACA forums no matter what, however, just wanted to share here what I shared with the rest of the world. My opinion only from being on the AACA forum for years, and none of what I say takes away the appreciation for the hard work people have done concerning our forum.
From Peter Gariepy:
“Just curious. Why “private”? Why not be more visible?
FYI: I recently helped with some technology issues with a smaller club to help with their “private” forum. Participation is modest but constant. No more than 150 participants. Maybe 30 “core” participants. They saw being public as both a ‘service’ to their membership, and worried public would expose them. “
My response:
Peter, I’m fairly sure I know the club you’re mentioning, and I myself have been involved in some of those discussions.
There IS a large exposure, as you say, and not all of that is good. Once the private forum moves to the public forum and starts posting comments and pictures and information, it’s public and can be used or abused. It’s just like making a comment on Facebook and thinking it’s private. It’s not, it can then be used, quoted (or worse, misquoted), copied, by anyone in the world.
I feel there’s some merit to having a “private” forum, as we’re labeling it. In the case of the forum that’s considering moving to the AACA, there are numerous reasons that I, and some others, aren’t in favor of it.
-On the private forum, I know just about everyone, and can be much more candid in my comments and not expect some “stranger” to call me an idiot (as I’ve been called on the AACA forums)
-There’s more anonymity, if someone doesn’t want their name bantered around on a public forum, which the AACA is. I started out keeping my name out of my posts on AACA, until someone posted something like “Gee, David Coco (Trimacar) was a big help when I talked to him the other day”….so much for keeping a low profile, and I know that some people on that other forum don’t want their name out there for privacy reasons
-There is an undercurrent of animosity and criticism on the AACA forums. Don’t get me wrong, I love the opportunity to be here and post my thoughts, but it’s a totally different tone than a private forum. I once was rationally discussing a topic on the AACA forum, and a post was made saying that they hoped I wasn’t in the educational system, I was so stupid….that tone is not evident in the private forum. And, gosh forbid one post a car for sale on the AACA, the comments can get downright nasty, which is the reason I think the poster of a for sale thread should have the option to not allow comments.
-The argument is made that if a forum moves to the AACA, there are moderators who can delete or modify negative postings. That’s fine, but some of those posters with a negative outlook may then go elsewhere and say “Gee, that XYZ club is a bunch of snobs, they deleted my post”. Again, 99% of this forum is friendly, but there’s an element that’s not, and that doesn’t even bring into account the newbies, anyone in the world can get a user name and post gibberish.
-What if the club in question wants to discuss a sensitive, internal issue, on the private forum? Can’t do that on the AACA, or if you do, it’s airing all the club’s dirty laundry. There’s one club on AACA which had a big discussion on a major topic involving the Board of Directors of that club, I cringed when I saw it, as it should NOT have been public.
-Last but not least, the “exposure” is used as a positive for moving to the AACA, but my personal feeling is that I don’t think that having that private forum move here will make much difference. That marque has been represented on the AACA forum for a while, and that section has little use now, why is it going to attract new use (that’s not already on the private forum?)
I don’t intend these as arguing points, I just wanted to let you know my thoughts on the subject.
It’s a bargain for a collector, my bet is there were just no bidders and a dealer bought it, and you’ll see it listed for 125k soon.
Does anyone know who DID buy it?
“4) Who has more knowledge about these issues than the members assigned to propose the best solutions for the Society and all of our members?”
Dave, I agree that the people involved in presenting this solution have worked hard and believe what they are presenting is a good solution.
That said, this is a major change in response to a minor software glitch. Personally, I’d prefer to lose a post every now rather than lose the privacy of our current forum. This is just my opinion and is not a criticism of the hard work mentioned above.
It may very well be a good way to publicize our club, but in looking at the Pierce Arrow forum that’s been on the AACA forum for years, it’s little used. Unless someone is using the “new posts” option when viewing the AACA forum, one has to go looking for the Pierce Arrow forum there, and very few people do so. Moving our private forum to that site won’t make that change.
I participated in the Zoom meeting, and first want to thank Jane, Liz, and Karl for a very nice presentation. In particular, Liz presents a strong argument for the proposed move of the Pierce forum to the AACA site.
It doesn’t appear to be “proposed”, however, as it is now live on the AACA forum, with our topics, and in the upper left hand corner “Pierce Arrow Society Discussion Forum hosted by the AACA.” Comments have already started being posted there, from AACA signed in users, so unless this is just a live demo it looks like action has already been taken (see screenshot attached).
I appreciate the fact that it might give us some exposure to the general public, but therein may lie the problem. The AACA forum is NOT just for AACA members, it’s open to anyone and everyone who takes a couple of minutes to register.
During the meeting, Jane pointed out that I put my name on my AACA posts. If you wish anonymity, the AACA forum is not the place to do it. Early on I just went by my user name, Trimacar, but it didn’t take long for someone to comment something like “Wow, had a nice talk with David Coco (Trimacar) and he was a big help.” Cover blown, so to speak.
I equate our forum moving to the AACA site to having a nice little family gathering, all your kin you can say anything you want to, then inviting hundreds of strangers to join the gathering. The cozy tone and feel of the gathering is then lost. Discussions on the AACA are not private discussions, but rather public record and subject to severe criticism. I know, you can delete some postings, but that can have a negative effect on the Society when the censored user complains about the Society elsewhere on the Forum. Censorship is not taken lightly by many users on that forum.
I have over 8000 posts on the AACA forum, and I daresay I have a good reputation there, but I’ve also been called an idiot and had someone tell me “hope you’re not in the educational system because you’re posting stupid things”. The AACA forum is a great tool for communicating, but it’s also has, at times, an argumentative and confrontational tone. Moving there will change the complexion of the PAS forum to a large degree.
Thank you David Coco Winchester Va.
Thanks Dave … I haven’t decided one way or the other, but I do have concerns about going to the public forum of AACA. Just the thought of comments about frogeyes give me pause.
I agree you can moderate, and even delete posts, but I’ve also seen those deleted people pop up with comments elsewhere on the forum, “yeah, well, you can’t discuss anything with those Pierce people” kind of thing.
I’ve spent way too much time on the AACA forum, have over 8000 posts, and just think the feel of the AACA public forum is different than the cozy feel of the PAS Message Board.
In addition, but I guess a small point, on the AACA forum a PAS member could no longer post something like “Hey, I used XYZ chrome platers and they are terrible, don’t use them as they’ll rip you off.” The AACA is rightfully afraid of lawsuits and open discussion on negative aspects of vendors is discouraged and deleted.
I hope to be able to attend the Zoom meeting and have an open mind, but also have concerns as mentioned.
From what I now know (and someone correct me if I’m wrong), everyone and anyone signed in to AACA forums would be able to see and respond to any of our posts on the PAS forum.
The “members only” sections would still need PAS membership and login to access.
My thought, after years of being active on both forums, is that being on the AACA site will change the tone of our discussions somewhat, when anyone can EASILY see the posts and comment. Before this change someone had to come looking for us, now it’ll all be very public. There’s a lot of negativity on the AACA site, and we’ll have people criticizing some of our discussions. I’ve seen it daily, there are just some people who love to criticize and don’t hesitate to do so. Oh, wait, am I one of those? Hmmmm….
One argument is that “Well, people have to come looking for the Pierce forum on the AACA site and few will”. That’s not quite true. There’s a feature which I use, called “new posts”, that brings up all posts from all sub-forums since your last visit.
Does the additional exposure help the Society? Possibly.
None of this takes away from the fact that numerous people of the PAS have put in a lot of time on the new forum here, and that’s appreciated.
Can you give us a little more information please. Would this mean to view the PAS forum, one would go to AACA forum site? If so, would that mean anyone signed in to AACA forum would have use of PAS forum? Thanks dc
Although most all believe that the market is down, I think the prices realized are more an indication of condition adjustment than they are a market adjustment.
Project cars just don’t bring what they used to, because one has to factor in the cost of repair and restoration. What used to be a few thousand dollar paint job is now (according to a local shop that does antique car painting) $10,000 for a driver, $20,000 for a show car. The labor for an interior can run $10,000 to $15,000 easily, and that’s not counting materials. Chrome is out of sight, it’s like a game to see how much you’ll pay for shiny.
Nicely restored, well maintained cars will still bring fair money, but projects will go begging, and I think these prices reflect that. Just my opinion…dc
Nice, thanks for posting, I have a set to work on too!
He’s offered the $1000 reward for 6 or 7 years, not a shred of proof has turned up. It’s a real interesting assemblage of parts, but his description is sure flowery for what it is….
The only true words in the description are “built”, “found by Mike and Frank”, award for some reason, and “can be inspected”….everything else is conjecture, or as they use to say, a tale woven out of whole cloth…
At one time Merlin Smith was talking about having doors recast, that’s the only part that says Pierce, and the rest of the stove, while not easy to find, is a standard stove of the time, I forget the brand. I know an original sold a few years ago, but they are more rare than the trailers, and there aren’t that many trailers.
Just for history sake, the originals were two piece, a right and a left, and the joint was centerline of car front and back.
I’ve been told that sometimes the radius right and left may not match exactly, I could be wrong.
I’ve seen using the plywood as a pattern to bend the strips, from what I remember the person doing it stated that each curve was different, so started with the biggest radius, and cut same plywood board three times to make the other three pieces.
I have a top to install on a Packard, and frankly don’t have the time nor skills to bend the metal. I’m considering just installing a piece of hidem for now, then the owner can pursue metal if he desires.
I did a Pierce 840 not long ago, had the original metal strips, they were similar to #3 above, thin metal and very flimsy.
