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I remember seeing the car at Hershey, hard to think it was that many years ago. Henry Yeska had it for sale, which was interesting to me since I’d bought numerous Packard parts from him for my 443 coupe. I walked around it for probably 20 minutes, loving it, but my bank account at the time wasn’t up to the task!
Great video, I own a 31 and thought I knew it well, but I learned a lot from this presentation. Thanks to Rich and all involved…
That’s a mighty handsome car to me. I don’t know anything about Model 31, other than Pierce Arrow and six cylinder, was this the small car that year? The Speedway has been selling some pretty nice early iron, and kudos to them for getting them running and prepped before listing for sale….
Have fun with your restoration! Remember, it’s not one big job, it’s 3000 little jobs.
From a trimmer’s perspective, take a lot of pictures, save every piece for reference, and preferably, have the person who’s going to upholster the car come visit and give you some tips on what to do and what not to do. For example, continue door jamb paint around the edge, as the upholstery won’t cover the very edge of the door.
I’m working on a car now, if I’d been able to spend 30 minutes with the person in charge of the project before it was restored, it would have saved the owner a couple of thousand dollars in needless work getting an interior in it.
If your seats need new “socks” for the springs, make sure you mark where each individual spring is located in the backrest or cushion, as there can be many different lengths and spring rates in each assembly. I did an article on this in both the PAS “The Arrow” and the AACA magazine. The socks are necessary to keep the springs in place and quiet.
On your tack strip, I highly recommend using white ash. A lot of people like oak thinking “strong as an oak”, but that’s a large grain wood that splits easily and doesn’t like tacks.
From personal experience, if you take the doors off and remove the hinges, make SURE you mark where each hinge goes. I had a fellow work on my phaeton and threw them all in a bucket, unmarked. That will ruin your day.
I believe the Murphy fastener right behind front door is incorrect. There’s a special fastener, with a socket in the body, that should go there. Someone correct me if I’m wrong on that.
Thanks, Jane, for the update.
Thanks, George, for spending the time to investigate and, hopefully, fix. Your time is appreciated.
I hope that members here are following the AACA forums. After you register, if you’re not already, the easiest way to read is click “new posts” in upper right hand corner. Interesting reading.
Yes, you pulled me in on that one! I just couldn’t resist answering on one of my favorite topics, bicycles…..well done!
When is a decision going to be made? Right now we have two different forums, one here and one on the AACA site. At this point it doesn’t matter to me which decision is made, I’ve said more than enough about it, but it just seems like we should have one or the other, not both.
I understand the function of a moderator, I just think Peter is being a little heavy handed on the subject, the reason for my comment.
If we end up on the AACA forums, for goodness sake, stay on topic. Peter G. Just went ballistic as a moderator and there’s now a banner on the site STAY ON TOPIC or some such. God forbid we talk about other things that come to mind….
OK thanks, I’ll research from that angle. A citizen of leisure, now THERE’S a noble goal!
My point was that we don’t HAVE 500 posts every few days.
I have been just stating my opinion. I am sure that we will move to the AACA forum regardless of comments, and life will go on. Go for it, if it makes life easier for our volunteers then that’s fine. I do feel that the person paid to “fix” our website has a vested interest in us going there, but so be it.
Yes, I have 8000 posts there, but there have been a lot of compromises along the way, including developing a very thick skin and realizing that many people on that site aren’t on the same wavelength I am. As long as everyone realizes that the door will be open for criticism that’s not always friendly, that’s fine…
Whew. Thank you Jane for taking on the task of responding.
I don’t have the energy to go back and do it point by point, but here are the high points.
PAS Forum read only VS. public post, as we are currently…that’s fine with me, but we’re still talking among ourselves. The ramifications of bringing our posts into the general public, and having them respond, are huge. I’m really not fighting it so much as pointing out that life changes on the AACA forum, and as dramatic as that sounds, just saying…a user has to search for the Pierce forum, on the AACA, you are now a target for those who can figure out how to hit keys on a keyboard….I’ve been there, it’s not real pretty at time….do the benefits outweigh the negative stuff we’ll have to wade through? Maybe, that’s for our Board to decide.
Keep a “fun and happy tone”, well, sure, at times, but there will come a time when we look back and think to ourselves oh my goshenation, why did we go public with this. I’ve spent more than my fair share of time on the AACA forums, a great tool, but can get downright nasty at times.
Sticky with rules? I chuckled at that. Rules for posting are ignored constantly on the AACA forums. You can enforce by deletion, but that can lead to bigger problems too.
I think we’re headed to the AACA forums, you guys in charge seem to be leaning that way, and I know Peter is crawfishing and saying this’ll fix it ( a Lousiana term ). That’s fine, but again, I’ve been very active on the forums, and it’s not always a happy world.
You mention we’re losing 500 posts to the PAS forum every 10-15 days? I’m not understanding that comment.
Mark, I agree that some people want to stay behind a generic profile name and not be identified on the AACA forum.
I will also say that it’s very difficult to do. I started that way on the AACA forum but gave up, as someone called me out by name. All it takes is once and it’s over, then if you change your user name you’ve lost history on the site.
Remember that staying anonymous means not posting pictures of your cars, not talking about specific events or shows where you participated, not talking about the town or area you live in, the list goes on. The old car hobby is too small a group, relatively speaking, for someone not to figure out who you really are.
I think our private forum is going to the AACA forum, it’s already in use there, and I can appreciate the argument that it may give the Society more exposure. I’ve expressed my opinions and that’s that. Life will be different on the AACA forums, but heck, life’s different everywhere now……
That’s great news, I’m very pleased it went to an “end user”!
Looks like a great car, I love my Model 43 phaeton but that would be a close second for sure…..
Congratulations Don! I was so hoping it went to an individual and not a dealer. Great car at a more than fair price, I wish you many years of enjoyment. Although the Model 42 is significantly different than my Model 43, please don’t hesitate to contact me if you need any help with your new toy.
Bill, I see you have no forum replies. I’m no expert on the subject, but have looked into the same thing in the past, and will offer some opinions. Worth nothing, just talking.
I looked up a “Charitable Remainder Trust”, and I don’t think that’s any help at all.
At one time I looked at setting up my collection as a business (since I did buy and sell cars occasionally). You can do that, and deduct expenses and other things, BUT you DO have to buy and sell cars. If set up as a business you HAVE to show a profit, I think it’s 2 out of the first 5 years, or the IRS will not accept it as a business.
Same with using cars for weddings and events, you must get paid for it and show a profit, possible but difficult.
Purely as a hobby, there’s not much you can do tax-wise, other than treat the cars as capital investments. Thus, capital gain and loss rules apply on taxes. Of course, to do that, very clean records must be kept on each car, no “cash on the hood” deals!
Just my opinion, none of above is legal advice. Good luck! David C.
Peter G. brought us up on the AACA forums, though didn’t call us out by name. He obviously has a vested interest in getting us on those forums. I replied with my thoughts. I realize that I’m probably in the minority and that we’re headed to the AACA forums no matter what, however, just wanted to share here what I shared with the rest of the world. My opinion only from being on the AACA forum for years, and none of what I say takes away the appreciation for the hard work people have done concerning our forum.
From Peter Gariepy:
“Just curious. Why “private”? Why not be more visible?
FYI: I recently helped with some technology issues with a smaller club to help with their “private” forum. Participation is modest but constant. No more than 150 participants. Maybe 30 “core” participants. They saw being public as both a ‘service’ to their membership, and worried public would expose them. “
My response:
Peter, I’m fairly sure I know the club you’re mentioning, and I myself have been involved in some of those discussions.
There IS a large exposure, as you say, and not all of that is good. Once the private forum moves to the public forum and starts posting comments and pictures and information, it’s public and can be used or abused. It’s just like making a comment on Facebook and thinking it’s private. It’s not, it can then be used, quoted (or worse, misquoted), copied, by anyone in the world.
I feel there’s some merit to having a “private” forum, as we’re labeling it. In the case of the forum that’s considering moving to the AACA, there are numerous reasons that I, and some others, aren’t in favor of it.
-On the private forum, I know just about everyone, and can be much more candid in my comments and not expect some “stranger” to call me an idiot (as I’ve been called on the AACA forums)
-There’s more anonymity, if someone doesn’t want their name bantered around on a public forum, which the AACA is. I started out keeping my name out of my posts on AACA, until someone posted something like “Gee, David Coco (Trimacar) was a big help when I talked to him the other day”….so much for keeping a low profile, and I know that some people on that other forum don’t want their name out there for privacy reasons
-There is an undercurrent of animosity and criticism on the AACA forums. Don’t get me wrong, I love the opportunity to be here and post my thoughts, but it’s a totally different tone than a private forum. I once was rationally discussing a topic on the AACA forum, and a post was made saying that they hoped I wasn’t in the educational system, I was so stupid….that tone is not evident in the private forum. And, gosh forbid one post a car for sale on the AACA, the comments can get downright nasty, which is the reason I think the poster of a for sale thread should have the option to not allow comments.
-The argument is made that if a forum moves to the AACA, there are moderators who can delete or modify negative postings. That’s fine, but some of those posters with a negative outlook may then go elsewhere and say “Gee, that XYZ club is a bunch of snobs, they deleted my post”. Again, 99% of this forum is friendly, but there’s an element that’s not, and that doesn’t even bring into account the newbies, anyone in the world can get a user name and post gibberish.
-What if the club in question wants to discuss a sensitive, internal issue, on the private forum? Can’t do that on the AACA, or if you do, it’s airing all the club’s dirty laundry. There’s one club on AACA which had a big discussion on a major topic involving the Board of Directors of that club, I cringed when I saw it, as it should NOT have been public.
-Last but not least, the “exposure” is used as a positive for moving to the AACA, but my personal feeling is that I don’t think that having that private forum move here will make much difference. That marque has been represented on the AACA forum for a while, and that section has little use now, why is it going to attract new use (that’s not already on the private forum?)
I don’t intend these as arguing points, I just wanted to let you know my thoughts on the subject.
It’s a bargain for a collector, my bet is there were just no bidders and a dealer bought it, and you’ll see it listed for 125k soon.
Does anyone know who DID buy it?
“4) Who has more knowledge about these issues than the members assigned to propose the best solutions for the Society and all of our members?”
Dave, I agree that the people involved in presenting this solution have worked hard and believe what they are presenting is a good solution.
That said, this is a major change in response to a minor software glitch. Personally, I’d prefer to lose a post every now rather than lose the privacy of our current forum. This is just my opinion and is not a criticism of the hard work mentioned above.
It may very well be a good way to publicize our club, but in looking at the Pierce Arrow forum that’s been on the AACA forum for years, it’s little used. Unless someone is using the “new posts” option when viewing the AACA forum, one has to go looking for the Pierce Arrow forum there, and very few people do so. Moving our private forum to that site won’t make that change.
I participated in the Zoom meeting, and first want to thank Jane, Liz, and Karl for a very nice presentation. In particular, Liz presents a strong argument for the proposed move of the Pierce forum to the AACA site.
It doesn’t appear to be “proposed”, however, as it is now live on the AACA forum, with our topics, and in the upper left hand corner “Pierce Arrow Society Discussion Forum hosted by the AACA.” Comments have already started being posted there, from AACA signed in users, so unless this is just a live demo it looks like action has already been taken (see screenshot attached).
I appreciate the fact that it might give us some exposure to the general public, but therein may lie the problem. The AACA forum is NOT just for AACA members, it’s open to anyone and everyone who takes a couple of minutes to register.
During the meeting, Jane pointed out that I put my name on my AACA posts. If you wish anonymity, the AACA forum is not the place to do it. Early on I just went by my user name, Trimacar, but it didn’t take long for someone to comment something like “Wow, had a nice talk with David Coco (Trimacar) and he was a big help.” Cover blown, so to speak.
I equate our forum moving to the AACA site to having a nice little family gathering, all your kin you can say anything you want to, then inviting hundreds of strangers to join the gathering. The cozy tone and feel of the gathering is then lost. Discussions on the AACA are not private discussions, but rather public record and subject to severe criticism. I know, you can delete some postings, but that can have a negative effect on the Society when the censored user complains about the Society elsewhere on the Forum. Censorship is not taken lightly by many users on that forum.
I have over 8000 posts on the AACA forum, and I daresay I have a good reputation there, but I’ve also been called an idiot and had someone tell me “hope you’re not in the educational system because you’re posting stupid things”. The AACA forum is a great tool for communicating, but it’s also has, at times, an argumentative and confrontational tone. Moving there will change the complexion of the PAS forum to a large degree.
Thank you David Coco Winchester Va.
Thanks Dave … I haven’t decided one way or the other, but I do have concerns about going to the public forum of AACA. Just the thought of comments about frogeyes give me pause.
I agree you can moderate, and even delete posts, but I’ve also seen those deleted people pop up with comments elsewhere on the forum, “yeah, well, you can’t discuss anything with those Pierce people” kind of thing.
I’ve spent way too much time on the AACA forum, have over 8000 posts, and just think the feel of the AACA public forum is different than the cozy feel of the PAS Message Board.
In addition, but I guess a small point, on the AACA forum a PAS member could no longer post something like “Hey, I used XYZ chrome platers and they are terrible, don’t use them as they’ll rip you off.” The AACA is rightfully afraid of lawsuits and open discussion on negative aspects of vendors is discouraged and deleted.
I hope to be able to attend the Zoom meeting and have an open mind, but also have concerns as mentioned.
