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Talking a little more about the chocolate brown, the car I’m thinking of was owned by the late Rick Carroll at one time, and not sure the attached is the same car, but similar. Just think it’s an interesting color, sporty and sedate at the same time. I still remember his car as being brighter for some reason…
Yes, I agree with Bob….I spent part of this morning looking at fabric samples with a friend, for an early 30’s Chrysler Victoria, matching against the paint. Rainy day, so we did it inside, after choosing some samples I looked up and saw the fluorescent curly light bulbs in his shop.
I turned to him and said we’d have to finish on another, sunny, day, and outside! In the sun is your best bet for looking at colors..
Wish I could find the picture, there was a Packard roadster that belonged to a well known collector in Florida (he died in a car wreck), that was painted with brownish fenders and a body the color of the reddish tiles you see on roofs…I think I have it right, maybe it was other way around, but the car was stunning….I think Harrah had one in his collection done the same way…I need to go back and try to find a picture or two…
Ah, but was the picture of the Hershey bars a clue, possibly brown and silver paint for the car?
Just glad you’re saving this car, whatever color you decide to paint it!
It’s a little harder giving advice when we don’t know what basic colors you’re working with.
Phaeton tops in Haartz cloth, for example, are usually either black or tan. Haartz cloth with other colors or woven color combinations have been available, but make things hard to match. They can also make a car look very busy from a color standpoint.
There are a lot of shades of leather, of course. It can be very difficult to match leather to paint color, unless, again, the leather color is a basic one (such as black). Even with black, there are a lot of different textures and shades to deal with. I recently upholstered a 1940 Packard 160 convertible sedan, black with black top, and you’d think black leather would be an easy task…but the owner and I went through about 40 different leather samples before finding something that looked appropriate.
If you want any advice from a trimmer’s standpoint, feel free to email me, but would need to know what you’re working with.
I’m not sure about records, but there are paint sample cards that are out there for Pierce for most years in the 30’s, a factory publication from the Art and Styling department if I remember correctly. I think that one I have states that they had 15,000 paint formulas on file, so am sure by the 30’s that metallic was included.
Ed is correct of course. The other thing to remember is that the metallic paint which was first used in the late 20’s and into the 30’s was NOT the bold metallic that we see on current cars, hot rods, customs, and so forth. It was a very subtle paint, made to highlight, not to overwhelm.
front of pedal car
Nice! Only pedal car I own is a wooden/metal Pierce, not going to restore it though! It’s not near as pretty as yours….
Oops, forgot to mention…the reminder thermometer from Mumma has two long pins on its back, to pin to a fabric sun visor or, I guess if you wanted, a door panel or anywhere there’s fabric. You can see the wicked points sticking out from the bottom in the picture.
I thought the attached may be of interest, since the above discussion included the “reminder” plates for oil and such.
M.L. Mumma (has to be a story behind that name!) was a Studebaker dealer in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, from 1923 until 1939. The dealership was located at 1521-27 4th street, which sounds like the entire block.
Apparently he took on Pierce Arrow cars when the two companies had something in common. Interesting to note that this dealership folded in 1939, a year after Pierce did also.
Note the similarity to the above plates with the three oil/grease/battery bars.
I had this boxed in my pile and forgot I even had it. I am working on memorabilia articles for the magazine and will include this piece in those.
Richard, I understand the concern, and also know that it’s possible to overthink things to a certain degree.
Get them porcelainized black, and there’ll be no need to look back.
Any gray color you’re seeing is 75 years of discoloration, and the intake and exhaust discolor differently due to temperatures they are subjected to…intake maybe 200, exhaust 600 degrees or more.
I have no belief whatsoever that the Pierce engineers debated what shades of gray to make the manifolds…make them black and move on!
I can make you a canvas (or Haartz cloth) cover, given the correct dimensions. The Pierce logo would need to be embroidered or otherwise applied, unless it was a patch that could be sewn into place.
You may have access to a trimmer in your area who could also fabricate it for you, would be a lot better to do on the car if possible.
The Columbia coin is an original, and shows much more detail than our coins. I don’t know of other coins, but would bet there are both more originals and more of the replicated coins out there.
I believe they would have been black originally. The manifold on my 1934 sedan, my first Pierce and a nice original, was a grayish color, but it was very obviously aging and not the original color.
So, my opinion is they were both black and have faded differently, due to difference in operating temperatures.
Note on the Columbia medal the detail of the rim inside the outer bead, with the outer bead representing a tire. The small projection on the non-engraved side, on the rim, is the valve stem for the tire.
Note how much more detailed the Columbia coin is in those respects than our Pierce coins.
I do think that ours were cast from an original, which would cause the loss of detail. Did PAMCC do it? That’s a great theory, as no one so far in the Society remembers any such project.
And, I agree on value, I think ours are curiosities with but small value. The original, if found, would be a different story!
Since I weighed the 1901-1911 medal, I weighed these two 1903 medals too….1 ounce for the unplated one, 1.1 ounce for the plated one…so if that’s 0.1 ounce of gold, there’s some value!!
and here’s back of Columbia medal
Here are pictures of the Columbia coin, which still exists. Not the fact that it appears to be very much gold or gold plated, and the engraving is significantly deeper than the Pierce medals we’re discussing.
I’ve also copied a link to the Internet page, in case pictures don’t work out
Richard, you bring up an interesting point, did the PAMCC reproduce these medals? That would be interesting. The mystery in this is just that, who did make what I’m considering a “replicated” medal (again, my opinion).
Here’s a mention of the same 1903 medal, taken from the Internet:
“The National Association of Automobile Manufacturers conducts an Endurance Test from Chicago to Pittsburgh, and the Columbia Car driven by Bert Holcomb wins a Gold Medal. “
In 1903, if it was stated a “gold medal”, then my belief is that it would probably be solid gold, possibly gold plated. The coin you have, and one of the ones I have, appear to be unfinished, “rough” castings. The one I have that is plated appears to be gold, but the Pierce information becomes very faint, not what one would expect from an original.
It’s possible Pierce reproduced and handed out. I have heard that there are more such coins floating around, although I can’t verify that. Without provenance, they’re interesting, but not very valuable. When I first found mine, I was excited thinking they were the real thing, but time and research has cooled that feeling. I’m still glad to have anything Pierce related in hand!
Here’s a picture of the LA lube plate I found at Hershey, and a “regular” lube plate next to it for reference.
Jim, to answer your question, my plate is made of brass, but it does appear that it was nickel or chrome plated at one time, with the depressed areas painted.
Like Ed, I’ve never seen this item until this year, and for two to appear is an interesting coincidence, although they are both very obviously (I think) real…if someone faked these, they did a helluva job…
I actually touched and felt and drooled over Ed’s upholstery find, one for being a Pierce memorabilia collector, and two for being a trimmer, so anything upholstery related gets me going…
I have to tell a story on Ed…walked up to the tent, talking to him, sat down, I showed him the LA lube plate and handed it to him. At that point he received a phone call, he walked a little ways away, and glancing back at me slipped the plate into his rear pants pocket. Joking, of course, but smooth, so smooth….
I’ve found many things over the years at Hershey, but it’s so random…if I’d zigged instead of zagged, if I hadn’t walked to the end of the row to throw away the French fry container, if I’d looked right on the row instead of left, if I hadn’t walked the extra 10 steps to look down in the case holding the lube plate….it’s all luck or fate, or some combination of the two, that gets us these prizes…
