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Jon, remember that you have to have some rpm to get a charge showing.  Factory wiring requires a signal from the generator to prevent the Startix from engaging, but I don’t know how little output will accomplish this.  The best news in your photo is that you seem to have a fairly fresh wiring harness with readable color coding!  That square (2-stage) regulator appears to be the proper type for your car.

If the car were mine, I’d pull the generator and have an electrical shop confirm that it is indeed capable of producing a sufficient charge.

To make better sense of wiring diagrams, I recommend taking a wiring diagram to a print/copy shop and have 6 or so enlargements made to 11 x 17 inches.  And buy a pack of 4 to 6 different colored highlighters.  Use one copy for charging, one for lights, etc. as you wish, and highlight individual wire traces with different colors.

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Jon, this will be but little help:  Autolite acquired Owen Dyneto in the late 1930s but seems to have maintained the Dyneto part numbers.  An Autolite-branded 40300 will serve just fine, as it’s the identical piece of equipment.  Actually, in mid-1934, Pierce began using Dyneto starters and generators, replacing Delco-Remy units, but there are some original 1935 Pierces which had Delco equipment from the factory, including Paul Johnson’s very original model 845.

The regulators on 1936-38 Pierces remained atop the generator.  I’m thinking that someone substituted a 3-stage regulator for the Dyneto, and mounted it on the firewall as is the custom for virtually all 3-stage regulators.  I think you need to look at a wiring diagram and trace everything out.  Which generator (Dyneto 3-brush?) do you have?  Or did some previous owner convert the generator to a later 2-brush system in conjunction with the installation of the 3-stage regulator?  That is, a holistic approach to the charging system (generator and regulator) is required, including an analysis of existing wiring against the factory diagram.

And do you still have the Startix?  That unit senses a lack of signal from the generator and automatically engages the starter–to respond to a stall.

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Bravo, Greg!  Do I see a future Service Bulletin article in the making?

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Ken, this is a common situation among all marques, as reproduction tires available today seem to be larger dimensioned in both diameter and width.  Some favored reproduction tires (Bedford, BFG) seem to be the most problematic.  Lester tires seem to be truest to original dimensions.  It is very common to step down a size (e.g., 750 to 700) for sidemounted spares.

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Follow-on to answer Ryan’s question why the road wheels’ size was changed:  5-lug 18″ wheels were hard to find, and tires were even harder to find a few decades ago.  For 1931 only IIRC, 18″ wheels were 6-lug.  One available 6.50x 18 tire (Excelsior) is IMHO too small in cross-section for road wheels but would be suitable for covered spares in fenderwells.

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I agree with running the 17s, and 700×17 (not 750s which were for 12s).  I strongly endorse Dave Stevens’s concept of running 16″ radial truck tubes, available from your modern tire wallah, with the 17″ wheels, due to the drop-center wheels.  The “repro” tubes are junk, and I had two fail within 1500 miles on the bonded seam, not on any possible friction point.

Use flaps OR use HVAC high-temp tape (20 mil on the center, 10 mil on the shoulders–ask Greg Long for details).  While tires are off, remove any rust, chemically treat with Metal-Prep or similar, and brush paint some anti-rust paint on the inside of the wheel.

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I’m late to the party but want to express my strong agreement with David Coco’s posts of September 23 and 26.  I want our PAS message board to remain confined to PAS members only.

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I hope this matter will be addressed at the Zoom Board meeting on October 18.

I’ve been an AACA member since 1962, a member of the AACA forum for 20 years–but not nearly as prolific a contributor as David is.  I’m sure that David will agree that anyone showing up on the AACA forum with a newly-acquired Pierce is immediately directed, by both PAS members and non-members, to join PAS as the ultimate source of information on the marque.  Any marketing benefit from placing OUR posts here on AACA is virtually nil, IMHO, and I fear that we would be giving away too much of what we have to “sell” as membership benefit.

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Andrew, I have an uninstalled circa 1997 cast aluminum reproduction commissioned by the late Luther Gentry, but it needs some fine steady-hand trimming with a Dremel to fit properly, as well as all the #4 and #2 (IIRC) holes drilled and tapped, plus the much larger holes for attaching the clock-retaining arc.  It does NOT have the lower arc for retaining the clock.  You’re certainly welcome to borrow it for your project.  I consider this a VERY worthwhile project.

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Hi Rod, unless your car is an oil burner, the cooler W-18 / 518 should work well.  Autolite 3076 (probably equivalent to W-16 / 516) is a tad cooler yet, and that’s what I run in my S80.

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Ron, the P4269 pump *is* the Carter pump but with a NAPA number.  I have had them in my 1930 and 1934 for over 12 years with no issues.  If you use rubber hose in and out, spend the extra money for R9 hose (SAE 30 R9), high pressure hose, which is much more robust than SAE 30 R7. I use a high quality pressure adjustable regulator, Holley #12-804, about $65, to reduce to 3-3.5 psi. (Avoid the $20 bubble pack “Purolator” regulators which will fail and leak gas sooner more often than later.)

You do indeed need a bypass and a check valve.  You also need to design your electric power source given the Startix.  I did not want the 7-9 amps for pump running through my ignition switch, so installed a relay–but it’s not correct yet on my 1934 with Startix. You want to have power to the pump for priming, perhaps through a momentary switch, before you turn on the ignition switch and automatically engage the Startix.  And then have the option of powering the pump under vapor lock conditions.  Greg or someone else here can give you better info on that and I will listen attentively  🙂

I designed my installation so that a modern inline fuel filter, EASILY ACCESSIBLE ON THE ROAD, is between the fuel tank and the first tee.

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Jim, the reserve capacity (RC) of EACH 6V Optima is 100 (i.e., 100 minutes at 25 amps) which is my primary reason for using a pair–running at night with a charging deficit.  I’ve used Optimas exclusively for 20 years now.  I *think* there’s a difference in how Amp-hrs (AH) is calculated these days vs the 1930s.  When I began using Optimas their labels showed 100AH, meaning that a *pair* had 200AH vs factory Group 3 (8-cyl P-As) at 140AH and Group 4 (12-cyl P-As) at 165AH.

Optimas do not like to be fully discharged.  My experience is that if an Optima has been discharged to less than approx 5.8V, it must be connected in parallel to another 6V battery (wet cell or an AGM like Optima) which is at least 6.1V to be brought back by charging.

Some folks (like Ed Minnie) run a pair in the battery box but only one connected, and will switch if a generator fails.  (A couple of years ago, Tony W’s generator failed on a tour, so I removed one of the two Optimas from my 1934 and he used it to drive home on.)

And a pair in parallel spins the starter like  12V!

I run a single Optima (each) in my Series 80 (289 cid) and in my 48-B-5 (525 cid) but both have reduction starter motors and don’t see as much night driving as my 8s.

I’m not contesting your choice, but want to share the rationale of Optima fans.

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That’s GREG Long who just wrote a Service Bulletin article just for you and is arguably the best tech person in the Society and unquestionably the most willing to spend time helping us all out.  You guys in the eastern time zone are yakking away while we on the Left Coast are still inspecting our eyelids for light leaks.

Ron, you might consider waiting for March 2021 for the next heavily-discounted Optima offer.  I use a pair in parallel in my 8-cyl cars, and a pair fits easily in the factory battery box.  The advantage of Optimas for underseat/underfloor locations is that they are sealed and never need distilled water, won’t outgas (unless greatly overcharged and the vent pops open), and needs far less cleaning of battery terminals.  Mine can stand over the winter without a maintainer and start without issue.  Yes, Optima makes only one 6V battery.  I average 9 years of service before I replace mine–in pairs, as we do on diesel pickups.

IMHO, the best thing you can do now is DRIVE your car.  Try to make the majority of your trips at least 45 minutes so everything gets up to temperature.

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Ron, Dave and Greg have given you excellent advice.  Please bear with us on requests for info, as it’s hard to diagnose over the internet!

Clarification:  Starting fluid (ether) will often overcome liabilities of spark or cranking speed, but it’s very inconvenient and over time can cause damage to your engine.  We certainly want to get your engine to start reliably on its own.  Please check and correct any corrosion on the coil primaries, coil secondaries, battery posts and terminals.  Note in your records the date you have dome all these checks, and do them again every few years even if you’ve had no problems.  The dedicated additional cable from the battery ground (+) terminal to a starter bolt is well worth the effort, but scrape off any paint (an insulator) from the ear of the starter.  Part of that is because the engine motor mounts (rubber doughnuts) insulate the the engine from the chassis except for their thru-bolts, and the additional cable vastly improves the ground path which is critical on 6V systems on large engines.

I don’t know how long you’ve cranked before you run out of battery, but that remains a concern of mine from what you’ve told us.

Please follow suggestions and report back–we’ll get you through this!

George

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Ron,

FUEL:  As Jim says, plus check your float level.  Are you using a mechanical or electric fuel pump?  If the latter, what’s the output in psi?  Dialed down with regulator?

ELECTRICAL:  I’ve had cars whose tired starters drew down the voltage needed for the ignition to fire properly.  It would take some time, but measure the draw and the voltage to the coil during cranking.  What battery do you have?  Your car originally had a Group 3; a Group 2 may have too little capacity.  I run a pair of Optimas wired in parallel (can provide a photo if you wish)–makes the starter spin very fast, but my primary reason for using them is more reserve capacity for driving at night with a charging deficit.  Are your battery cables 00  (double ought) as they should be?  If smaller than that, your cables will heat up while cranking and not deliver full battery power.  I ask because you say you run down your battery, rather quickly it seems.  Tell us how fast the engine is turning over during cranking–it won’t be as fast as a 12V unless you have a pair of Optimas, but should not be “suffering” either.

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Please call me George.  Good luck!

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For cold starts, my experience with those updraft carbs on 1929-32 8s (and on a friend’s 1931 Studebaker President) is that I retard the spark and go to full choke (as you do), but ALSO go to full throttle with the hand throttle (being prepared to close it quickly when the engine fires), and after two or three revolutions go to 1/3 to 1/2 choke before it fires.  Be *very* quick to close the hand throttle as soon as it fires!

Give this a try and let us know if there’s any improvement.

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I agree with Jim–do not let the gen run free!

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I give up for tonight! Darren, I;ll send an email tomorrow.

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Still didn’t post! A long trailer like Ed;s or a gooseneck will get you unwanted law enforcement attention because they exceed 10,000 lbs. Better to get, for example, 2 axles at 6,000 lns each downrated to

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