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Exhaust manifold temp over 450 is fairly low, I have measured my ’35 845 at over 600F standing still. It will get hotter than that when being driven on the road under load. The exhaust gases flowing fast through the inside of the manifold will average on the order of 1000F, the manifold can only be cooled below that temperature by the slow 140 degree air coming out of the radiator wafting over the outside of the manifold and by conduction into the 200 degree block.

Note that high performance engines running at high power will make the exhaust manifold glow cherry red – ~1200F, but the block will be kept in the 200’s by the cooling.

The reason exhaust manifolds are susceptible to cracking is because of the large temperature difference between the manifold and the block they are attached too.

The manifold sits at the same temperature as the block until the engine is run, then quickly gets a lot hotter and tries to grow from thermal expansion which the connection to the cooler block prevents. This puts a strain on the manifold that may eventually crack it.

It looks like you have a good 20 degree temperature drop through the radiator and the block is being cooled down normally to a 200 degree temp via the flow of water starting at 150 and regaining the 20 degrees when it goes back to the radiator.

Jim

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I recently bought a NICO 3500 Genius and have been happy with it. The NICO 1100 is only 1.1 amp and the NICO site says it is for batteries of up to 40 amp-hour capacity. The Optima is 50 AH, so if fully discharged it would take on the order of 50/1.1 45 hours to fully charge a near dead battery – 2 days. A bit longer because the NICO has sophisticated algorithms to vary the charge rate to optimize the charge.

Charging 2 optimas in parallel would require twice as long and would exceed the stated size limitation.

The larger NICO 3500 is 3.5 amp and is rated on their site for batteries up to 125 AH. I still use conventional group 3 batteries (I have had them last 5 to 6 years) of 140 AH which is a bit larger than the stated limit. Theoretically at maximum charge rate it would take 40 hours but actually takes about 4 to 5 days to charge a nearly dead battery and will often croak in the final optimization stage. Not a big problem, I think this charger is great.

I think charging two batteries in parallel may throw the little electronic brain of the charger off since it is trying to adjust charge rate based on the condition and state of charge of the battery. Two batteries are not going to be identical. May work, but maybe not as well as charging separately.

Before I bought the charger I asked NICO if it would still work even though my battery was a bit larger than 125 AH:

“Thank you for contacting NOCO support. It’ll still work on it. The further outside of the Amp-Hour rating of the charger the battery is, the harder it is for the charger to complete the charge. If the batteries are only slightly outside the rating, then it will only be a matter of a longer charge time, but the larger the battery the more difficult it is for the charger to complete the charge cycle. This is because the charge steps the charger uses. In the final steps of charging, the charger will continually lower the current used, while raising the voltage to the max voltage level. This helps provide a full saturated charge, and repopulate the ions to the plates, but also limits the Ah sizes the chargers can recharge. Since your battery isn’t too far outside of that rating, it’s just going to take a little longer to charge. Please keep in mind the Repair mode is only for 12V Repair. However, it’ll still maintain the battery and the sulfation is still broken up to help repair it in the first steps of the charging cycle. The chargers will remove the charge once it is complete and go into a low energy maintenance mode where they monitor the battery. If the battery voltage drops below its resting voltage, the charger will provide a trickle charge to top the battery off. This is a better maintenance charge for the battery than a constant float voltage that brands like Tender will use.”

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Hopefully next time you can go north to the forests, mountains and lakes. Being from North Idaho (Coeur d’Alene), we often had a couple of hurdles in explaining when we were traveling back east. 1) disbelief there was any state called Idaho – yes I mean literally. 2) If there was acceptance that there might be such a state, it was confused with Iowa. 3) If there was knowledge of Idaho, it was limited to the I-84 southern corridor of farm country flat lands and desert between Pocatello and Boise. A bit like visiting Hawaii and only seeing the black volcanic rock at the south end of the Big Island.

We’re not sensitive or anything!

Jim

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I have continued my exposure test with interesting results. I put the glass tubes of K-S fluids back out in the sun in early June. I added two more sample tubes of the same 5 year old fluid but dropped in some little pieces of brass and copper to simulate the presence of the brass reservoir and copper tube of the gauge. Voila, the fluid with copper and brass turned a lighter amber in about 2 weeks, the samples in pure glass still dark red. The samples behind UV blocking glass acted the same as regular glass.

It could be that temperature is as much or more of a factor in the reaction, I am testing that next. Don’t know that this will provide any solutions.

Jim

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Here is a close up of an original untouched ’35 dash that shows the raised bits. Thinking a bit more about it, I am thinking the method of painting the whole thing and polishing the paint off the high spots might have a chance of success if a relatively crude mask were made that covered most of the surface and just surrounded the outside of the art deco raised bits with some clearance so the mask did not have to be super accurate. It would keep a relatively solid polisher surface from dropping into the depression.

Jim

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Bob, I have been cogitating on the same thing and hoping someone would reply with a “why didn’t I think of that!” solution.

In the pictures of original cars I have seen (Paul Johnson’s 35 845 sedan and another untouched 845 sedan in picture) the faceplate was not wood grained but is a sort of brownish greenish gray paint. That is also how mine is. The finish on mine is a dull matte but I don’t know if that is dulled from 80 years of exposure.

I don’t know if there were differences in this finish for 12 vs 8 or body style, or if it could be changed by special order. I don’t feel that what is on mine was the most attractive choice, however I think the choice was popular ca 1935 as my ’36 Packard instrument dash plate has a very similar color and finish in its etched depressions. By accident I had a metal priming paint that was a close match to the color.

The choices for refinishing seem to be first polish the raised parts of course. After that I think the only choices are tedious. One is just paint the whole thing then carefully polish the paint back off the raised parts with a Dremel polishing wheel or something very flat that will remove the paint from the raised bits without hitting the valleys – and not scratch the raised parts. I have done this with varying degrees of success on similar pieces, but the wide expanse of this piece with very shallow etching will make this more challenging. Perhaps if the paint is applied thick enough the raised parts will show before the polishing action removes all the paint in the depressions. The paint finish will end up polished though.

The other choice is to apply painters masking tape and tediously cut the low spots out with an Xacto.

Still hoping for a better idea!

Jim

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Bill, can’t say I know of any Pierce related sites around there, but can recommend not missing the following if possible:

1) Durango Silverton railroad. Stay at the Strater hotel in Durango.

2) Mesa Verde National Park outside Durango (the cliff dwellings)

3) Grand Tetons east of Pocatello.

Being from Idaho originally, I can say there is a lot more to Idaho then spuds, but you need to go further north.

Jim

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I am not familiar with this particular part but I think “pot metal” is often a misleading term implying poorly controlled junk. Much of what is termed “pot metal” is zinc, which is very well suited to production die casting intricate parts requiring fine detail and high accuracy without subsequent machining steps. It also has good bearing and wear qualities. Zinc isn’t as strong as steel, but a lot stronger than plastics. Because it is cast it tends to have some porosity which gives lots of problems in re-plating. Zinc isn’t free, and there is an incentive by designers to keep walls thin enough to be “mission adequate” which makes them susceptible to decades of use and abuse. The vent wing brackets I am replacing with machined aluminum were zinc, and the original quality is fine, the walls just weren’t thick enough to deal with the overtorqueing of vent windows stuck in old weatherstrip.

Jim

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Thanks for the responses. I do have a ’34-’35 parts book copy I purchased from PAS. There are many parts books available from the PAS library but not ’36-’38 hence my query. Even though it doesn’t have any illustrations the ’34-35 isn’t entirely useless. It has been helpful sometimes for figuring out interchangeability between ’34 and ’35’s and between the different body styles and 8 vs 12.

Had I thought to study it a couple years ago (duh!) I would have found the answer to the question of late ’35 hydraulic tappets being different than the original ’33-early ’35.

It is interesting (to me) to know that the earlier parts books had illustrations and by ’34 it is just the numbers, names, and model/body number applicability. With no ’36 parts books it is likely testimony to the sad demise of the company scrimping to save money with bankruptcy at the door.

Jim

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Yup, kind of a Rube Goldberg band-aid on top of a Rube Goldberg system. I regret posting it since after more thought I don’t think it will work.

Nothing beats a working trip odometer with conservative guess on mileage. I have been depending on my Alfa trip odometer for years because the electric sending unit had to be replaced and the correct one for mine was no longer available. Still it kinda works and better than reading zero all the time. When it wiggles back and forth at least I know there is fuel in the the tank.

Meanwhile I like the challenge of trying to make the K-S work, so thinking of other ideas that I can test before it actually must get installed in the car. I think they must of worked okay when new, I find it hard to believe they would have been put in so many cars without some testing beforehand. The ingredient they couldn’t test was several years of aging.

I wonder if one of the impetus of the K-S gauge back then was avoiding having arcing and sparking of the variable resistor of an electric sending unit exposed to fuel tank vapors. I think the voltage is supposed to be too low to be able to initiate combustion which would explain millions of cars not exploding their gas tanks. Now of course they even bury the fuel pump in the tank.

Jim

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It is possible that you have air leaks between the tank and fuel pump, however it is more likely that you are seeing bubbles of vaporized fuel in the bowl. When you step on the gas the fuel pump tries to suddenly accelerate all the fuel in the line between the pump and the tank, this momentarily suddenly drops the pressure in the sediment bowl to a level less than the vapor pressure of the lighter constituents of the fuel and fuel vapor bubbles are formed. The bubbles will likely re-liquify before getting thrashed around in the fuel pump creating more vapor. The fuel pump was designed to deal with a lot of fuel vapor. This happens with higher temperature, rpm and throttle. It doesn’t mean that the fuel pump isn’t delivering adequate liquid fuel to the carburetor.

Yesterday I chased a similar problem on a 1960’s brand X – turned out to be ignition timing.

I would first check ignition timing. If you have dual points check timing on both sets. Then I would pull each plug and make sure none are fouled and they have the correct gap. Then I would check the distributor points to make sure they aren’t burned and have the correct gap. Double check the rotor to make sure there isn’t any evidence it has been hitting the metal tabs inside the cap. That would be a sign of worn distributor bushings.

If the roughness occurs only after it is warmed up on a hot day it could be vapor lock related, you might read my boring tomes in recent PASB’s. I see vapor bubbles pulsing in my sediment bowl without any vapor lock, and when it is in the process of vapor locking it isn’t so much a matter of running rough as it is just slowing down and dying as it leans out, or dying suddenly after hitting the throttle.

Jim

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The temp gauge is a sealed system.

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On more thought the system I propose probably wouldn’t work as shown – back to the drawing board. Bubbling air up under the air chamber with a stationary car probably won’t go through the tiny hole “C””. I suspect another part of the sloshing around of the gas in a moving car creates a slight pumping action in and out of the air chamber that allows the gasoline to drop out and the air to go in. Adding air directly into the air chamber itself would get around that problem but would have to be carefully controlled. It might add enough pressure to make the K-S fluid spill over the top of the instrument panel gauge or push gasoline into the air line.

Since Ford with its large engineering and test organization also used these gauges I would think they worked probably okay for a couple years- with everything through-out the system pristine and new. With so many tiny tubes and holes in an open system with no filtering it makes for a problem for 80 year old cars that have sat. Even the manometer assembly on the instrument gauge could plug – my K-S fluid test samples now 4 years old haven’t turned to clear but there are solid deposits showing on the glass that conceivably could get into the capillary tube between the glass tube and the brass reservoir tube.

I have tried to come up with some sort of electric/electronic gauge system that would look original – after all authenticity is only skin deep – but so far haven’t come up with any practical concept.

Jim”

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George, thanks for responding, I suspected that was the answer but thought I would confirm. Jim

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To be clear I am talking about the latch bolt, not the face of the frame it slides in. I was surprised when I removed the latch bolt that there isn’t a hint of any remnants of chrome or copper anywhere on this part, whereas the chrome face of the frame polished up to almost like new except for a couple of spots flaked out.

Thanks to the miracle of no cost instant modern digital photography I took several pictures of the stages of disassembly that hopefully will be enough for reassembly.

Yup, they are a bear to take apart particularly when thinking of how to reassemble after chroming and stay reassembled! It inevitably damages the parts. Still cogitating on that.

Thanks, Jim

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Forgot to add a picture.

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I would try a float ball in a gauge out of a car, I would be worried that a tiny ball might tend to stick to side of the glass via surface tension/capillary forces. Once in it could be real fun trying to get it out in a gauge behind the dash. My gauge is still mounte6 to the garage wall.Jim

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Automatic transmission Fluid’s density is a little less than water, the K-S fluid is 2.96 x denser than water. A change of 5 gallons in the tank would read as change of over 15 gallons on the gauge – until it overflowed out the top of the gauge. A simple manometer gauge of auto trans fluid would have be about the same height as the fuel tank to read full vs empty, although there is a trick to reduce that. The K-S gauge itself does that via the calibration rods sitting in the brass reservoir tube.

Jim

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Since the fluid hardly evaporates at all at room temperature -it can sit for years in an open K-S gauge for years – I am guessing the concentrations emanating from our cars is miniscule, which explains why we haven’t dropped dead handling it. I also assume that the low vapor pressure explains why I don’t smell it. Heating it up is probably where things would get nasty. It does seem skin and eye protection is warranted.

My nephew has responded and thinks the brass and copper of the reservoir and capillary tube is likely a part of the problem, it may be a chemical reaction that gets started generating copper bromide that would explain the sudden loss of color in the dye. Some gunk or particulates in the fluid would be an indication of this.

I need to add some copper bits to my exposure experiments.

My nephew is experimenting with some highly stable and very fluorescent day-glo green dyes if anyone is looking for something different!

Jim

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Checking chemical compatibility charts indicates that polyethlene is not recommended for long term exposure (>1 year) to acetylene tetrabromide. PE may be the plastic used for WD-40 tubes. There are two compounds that are listed as compatible: PTFE (Teflon) and Viton.

PTFE is a bit less dense than acetylene tetrabromide, so it should float. I found a red PTFE ball as small as 1/8”, but my K-S glass tube is ~1/8” so I think that ball would stick in the tube. I found natural white PTFE balls down to 1/16” dia. Perhaps one solution would be to paint a red stripe behind the glass tube and use the white PTFE ball to indicate level.

I also found 3/32 black Viton balls that should float also.

It probably wouldn’t be easy when in the car, but a ball could theoretically be dropped into the glass tube by removing the little cover above the tube. Would need some sort of clever tool to make it happen.

Jim

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