1935 sedan ebay

eBay link & ad verbiage copied below. This is a PAS member’s car; location: Sharon Springs, NY

“Car has been apart for 25 years and we have reassembled it for inventory and moving purposes.  She is quite complete and ready for someone to love.  

Car is registered with Pierce Arrow Society and titled by engine number as serial tag has been lost.  At present she is sporting a Seagrove Engine but original engine is present as well as another 1934 Pierce Engine and Transmission.

Missing one marker lens, a door handle, gas cap and one emblem.  Body # 338 N 230″

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1935-Other-Makes-/152453316379?hash=item237eecff1b:g:lgAAAOSw2gxYtMKS&vxp=mtr

I gave some serious thought to this since it is the same body/year as my 845 – so theoretically could mix and match the best bits and end up with a twelve. It looks pretty complete, has a few parts I am missing, but in the end it would be lost time and huge complication to take it on.

A few hours ago I drove my 845 up the cul de sac for the first time. All gears shift well, brakes work well, and did several brief full throttle slams in 2nd and 3rd to start seating the rings. So far it doesn’t seem to be smoking – big relief – so as appealing as a V-12 seems, to much added time! Looks like mine is good enough to continue to the next steps.

I hope someone buys this twelve to restore and not just part it out, it looks like it is probably in better shape overall than what I started with.

I do hope whoever restores it changes the color scheme, by coincidence it is very close to what I am planning!

Jim

It’s a decent car, I inspected it several years ago. It will make a great driver after it’s restored.

Hi Ken. The answer to your question is, as always: ‘It Depends’.

There are big differences in pricing for work throughout the country. I think this often reflects the cost of living in various areas. Shop labor rates usually reflect the local costs, and real estate values, taxes etc..

In general, any good paint job on a sedan will cost anywhere from $15,000 up to $25,000. I know this sounds like a lot of money, and it is, but a paint job is labor intensive, and the final results reflect the amount of effort and expertise put into the preparation for the actual paint..

Paint used to cost a few hundred dollars for a whole car, today, it can easily cost thousands. Add the EPA regulations for certain parts of the country, and the paint and preparations costs double or more.

If you want a truly superb paint job, then depending on the condition of the car to start with, the costs I mentioned could easily double.

A similar situation applies to chrome plating. The job is again labor intensive, and if care is not taken, the pieces being worked on can be destroyed, so extra care must be taken with the parts, and this means more time to replate.

The chemical solutions for plating are expensive and have again, a lot of EPA rules and regulations regarding the use and disposal of the used solutions.

The plating on a mid ’30’s Pierce can easily cost $20,000 to $35,000.

An engine overhaul can be very expensive, If an engine has suffered from a long period of storage without proper preparation for storage, [which is extremely rare] then rust can cause a great deal of damage to parts inside an engine that eventually have all protective oil drain off of them, leaving exposed iron or steel. Camshafts, timing gears and chains, cylinder walls all suffer from drain-down of protective lubricants.

A rough estimate for an 8-cylinder engine rebuilt at a professional’s shop will be in the $20,000 to $30,000 range. For a 12 cylinder engine add 50%.

If an engine has been turned over to circulate lubricants, or the engine run and the car driven every few months or at least once or twice a year, generally the severe internal rusting is not a huge problem.. BUT, over 80+ years, just about anything could have happened to an automobile that will have an effect on it’s condone decades later.

The interior in a sedan is a more expensive interior than in a coupe or roadster. The much larger area requiring more of the expensive fabric materials and labor adds up quickly. While leather is expensive, most open cars have fewer square yards of material needed to complete the upholstered areas.

So, here is the big question: just how ‘just like new’ do you want a car to be? A true ‘returned to original’ restoration is a huge painstaking job. While we love to have such a restored car, the costs can make it impractical to go with this option. Just look at a properly restored car: EVERY SINGLE part, piece, fastener has to have been worked on. Just wire brushing original fasteners snd painting them is a huge job.. Using new bolts and nuts is not an option, the difference it the shape and proportions of the fasteners immediately shows, and detracts from the appearance and correctness of a restored car.

A lot of people, will instead proudly drive their cars wearing the aged interior, aged paint, and pitted chrome. The owners take a lot of time to preserve the car as it is, and to prevent further degradation of the car.

Sometimes, an engine can also be nursed along in an ‘as is’ condition. But because an engine must perform at least well enough to propel the car when driven, it is hard to truly ‘pamper’ an engine.. At least if the car is to be driven on car-event tours, or driven to a local car show or similar uses, then the engine must be in reasonably good condition.

My collection of cars is almost entirely composed of older restorations that are starting to show wear. I really DRIVE my cars. For most of my cars I have either completely overhauled or at the very least ‘freshened up’ the engines in order for the car to be reliably driven and enjoyed.. I do not want to be concerned when I put the gas pedal to the floor climbing a long hill that the engine is going to sustain damage. Our Pierce arrow engines when in proper condition are very strong and reliable. Most will hold up to hard driving.

The best way to enjoy any collector car is to either not have any limits to your spending budget, [ certainly not very common ] OR to buy a car that looks and shows nice enough for you, and spend some time and money to get it mechanically in condition to drive it.. Then: DRIVE it a LOT..

Pierce Arrow cars were at the time they were built, the best that could be obtained, and for todays use on tours and car events, they still show just how far ahead of most other cars of the same era they are. Some of the Pierce Arrow cars in my collection are virtually daily drivers for me.. If it is not raining, creating a muddy road from my farm to the paved roads, or not snowing or too frigid, I use my cars to run errands, and general transportation.

I envy those who live in a more temperate climate and can drive their cars year-round..

I hope the above information is helpful. Feel free to email me with particular questions that you have.

Greg Long

Here’s picture I tried to post of the Cord and my phaeton…

“Professional”” doing the work is the key issue. If you can do a lot of the work yourself as an “”amateur”” and don’t have dreams of Pebble Beach it can be done for a lot less. Often the “”professionals”” make things worse rather than better on your dime. My first experience 35 years ago with a nationally recognized “”expert”” with a professional restoration business gave me advice that would have resulted in a seized bearing at first start if I hadn’t the time and knowledge to think it through myself.

Be careful out there.

Jim”

To be fairish and fill out the rest of the picture, doing it the sweat equity way takes a lot of time – you better be determined. I restored a ’36 Packard 30+ years ago basically from 2 very rusty junkyard heaps and lots of other parts obtained at prices less than scalper rates with some patience. I estimated it took me about $25,000 in todays dollars plus ~7000 manhours of my time. It doesn’t win any best of show awards but looks pretty good going down the highway at 65.

I think I am a bit smarter and definitely less fanatical now and could have cut that to 4-5,000 manhours by not doing silly stuff like completely stripping, sandblasting and carefully painting the frame – it was filthy after the first tour. That included replacing 80% of the body wood myself, lots of sandblasting, bodywork, painting it myself, keeping careful reigns on the machine shop to only have them do what was necessary, not “fixing” a transmission that didn’t need fixing, not rebuilding shocks that didn’t need rebuilding, and so forth. The car has been a nice driving, reliable tourer for 30 years.

This twelve looks to be more complete and in better shape, but it is a luck of the draw on what one will find inside. I was lucky with my Packard and so far with my 845 Pierce that the damage from corrosion inside the running gear was limited. There is a natural tendency to try to restore everything to better than new condition, but that really isn’t feasible. The likelihood of anyone taking something apart and rebuilding it to as good as the factory is small. $25,000 for a “professional” engine rebuild versus a few thousand to maybe reduce the risk of a thousand dollar towing bill if something fails on a tour are something to weigh.

I would guess this twelve would be on the order of 3-4000 manhours doing it in a similar fashion. Of course, doing stuff yourself is always a trade between how much money you have to spend versus time. The net value of your time doing “sweat equity” is probably in the single digits dollars/hour.

There are often comments about how wonderful to find a car not “molested” by amateur restorers, but of course many of those cars would never be restored by people just paying out a fortune to have someone else do the work. Closed cars simply have a large negative return on investment. You have to really want the car for your own satisfaction. The ideal find for someone is a car someone else lost their shirt on getting it “professionally” restored, and hope something fundamental wasn’t missed in the process.

The reality is that this twelve – like my 845 – is worth a lot more in parts than as a restored car. It will only be restored by someone looking past the financial realities.

Jim

That car in a professional shop 450-550 EASY. Yes it costs that much.

This Pierce sold on Ebay for $16,302. I also hope it finds a decent home and is soon back on the road.