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On one hand, what a nice looking body style and what a great car it could be. On the other hand, cost of restoration would be very high.
Is it good enough to get running as it is, or is it a total project? Who’s seen the car?
I’m too old for new projects, just curious!
Thanks guys! Will follow up on some of the sources…
I know there are catalogs, but what about pictures of Pierce employees assembling bikes in the factory, turn of the century?
I could be wrong, going on my memory of my ’31 phaeton when I re-restored it about 15 years ago….
I’m not clear what you mean by welting on these items….there’s really no welting or gasket, the cowl louvers have troughs around the edges, with a connection that drains any water collected down the front of the firewall with hose and pipe connections. The side cowl louvers could conceivably have a seal of some kind, but not welting. The side louvers open to a wood frame, the inside of which is against the kick panels inside the cowl. There was also a chrome strip that finished off the opening as it met the kick panel.
Is THAT why I hear sirens coming? Thanks for confirming it’s off a trailer cushion. I’ll serve my time!
In real life, it’s the retailer that isn’t supposed to remove the tag, once you get the pillow home you can do with it what you wish…..
Ed (or anyone who’s seen original cushions on a Pierce trailer), do you recall seeing any tags such as shown in the attached picture? I’m thinking these were attached to cushions for dinette in the trailer…it lists materials, but it’s very faint, can read 45% cotton and some percentage sisal, but that’s about it….unfortunately no date at the bottom…out of my Pierce memorabilia collection….
Definitely see Karl for straps, it was not my intent to take business away from him, but rather to share a catalog that has a lot of early top fittings not easily found elsewhere!
Speaking of tops, I highly recommend this company if you need any top hardware, leather straps, and so forth. Kim Dawson is great at helping you out with such needs, and has items that are not readily available elsewhere. No, I don’t get a commission, but think that good suppliers for antique car needs deserve a mention.
I first read the question as asking about what straps the top down, in the saddles, when the top is in the down position. Usually these are leather straps that are attached to the saddles, and when not in use are curled up inside same.
Greg seems to be discussing the straps that hold the top in the correct position when in the up position. On later “one man” tops, it is critical that the straps that are in the pads, and the visible front to back straps (if there are such), hold the top bows in the correct position.
In the attached picture, in order for the irons at point 2 to be held up in the correct position (you will see a lot of touring cars where the irons sag at this position and are visible under the edge of top, which is incorrect), then the bow at point 1 must be tensioned correctly, with pad and/or strap “pull”, to the rear bow. The irons are a modified four bar mechanism (the engineer coming out in me!), and only by getting the tension correct on that bow (1 in picture) will the mechanism be locked to the correct point.
Upholstery is very easy to explain in person, difficult to explain in print.
While I’m trying to ease out of doing upholstery (after fulfilling some commitments I already have) as I need to work on my own projects, will be glad to help out and answer any trimming questions that arise. And yes, Greg, you’re still on the “commitment” list!
In case you missed the article, here’s a copy of it, and it discusses some of Paulman’s antics:
Torset the Swede approached the front of the Great Arrow Victoria Tonneau, admiring the gleaming brass he’d spent the morning polishing. A pull of the crank and the fine car came to life, and he gently drove it out of the stable and around to the front of the house on Prairie Avenue.
Soon, John and Frances Glessner exited the house, and while Torset held the back door, entered the vehicle. Mrs. Glessner did not want the noise nor smell of a horseless carriage in their spacious courtyard, thus that area was avoided and they entered and exited the vehicle in a more public area.
John loved these new contraptions, automobiles, and he could well afford the best. He was one of the founders and Vice President of the International Harvester Company, and one of the wealthiest men in Chicago. He’d visited his friend Henry Paulman at the latter’s Pierce showroom on South Michigan Avenue, and soon struck a deal for a top of the line limousine. He’d read that Henry had participated in the 1906 Glidden Tour in a Great Arrow, a couple of months ago in July, and was determined to own a similar model for his first automobile.
This was to be a day for a short drive in the country, as the weather was lovely and the air only slightly cool. Leaving the city was no problem, for Mrs. Glessner was generous throughout the year with the local policemen and, more importantly, the policemen’s wives, little white envelopes for the former and honey for the latter. Mr. Glessner was also a member of the “Chicago Street Traffic Committeeâ€. When the dark blue Pierce-Arrow came into view, cross and other traffic was quickly stopped, and the Glessner’s sent on their unobstructed way.
As Torset glided the car along one country road, a stop was requested at a particularly scenic spot, one with the added attraction of having a natural spring. Mr. Glessner could easily cup his hands and have a sip, but that wouldn’t do for M’Lady, and Torset had the solution. Reaching in the bag he always brought along on such rides, he found the folded item that the H. Paulman & Co. service manager had given him on his last visit.
Opening the item, he pulled out a folded paper cup, handing it to Mr. Gleesner, who smiled with understanding and proceeded to use it to bring a drink of water to his lovely. After throwing the used cup away, he thanked Torset and asked him to make sure to get cup refills at his next visit to the dealership. “Ja, Mr. Glessner…â€
Ja, the above account includes a real house, real family, real chauffeur and real Pierce Arrow, with the invention of the trip and use of the cup in order to introduce the memorabilia shown, a dealer give-away of paper drinking cups, dated 1910. Then, as now, dealer’s wanted the name of the dealership to be on trinkets so that there was a reminder of where to go when a car was needed. The H. Paulman & Co. is inked not only on the cups, but (albeit very faintly now) on the folding pouches for the cups.
The Pierce Arrow dealership of H. Paulman & Co. was one of the earliest dealerships on Chicago’s “Motor Row†along South Michigan Avenue, the area which at one point had 116 automobile dealerships. The trade was so active on this street that the bandied about slogan was “Deliver Monday, Showroom Tuesday, Sold Wednesdayâ€.
Mr. Glessner would be a good customer of the Chicago Pierce dealer, and it’s also possible he was interested in purchasing a Wright airplane. After the successful 1909 Wright demonstrations for the Army, Mr. Paulman wrote the Brothers and asked for information on such a contraption, stating he had a customer interested in purchasing same. The Wrights would not sell any airplanes to the public until 1911, however. Henry Paulman would be a major factor in the “Issue of State Bonds to Build a State-wide System of Permanent Roads†of 1917-18, which provided sixty million dollars for “durable hard-surfaced roadways, not less than ten nor more than eighteen feet wide†in Illinois, and he (among others) realized the state’s future growth relied on a good road system.
Henry Paulman was not only an advocate for good roads, but he enjoyed driving fine Pierce Arrow automobiles. In addition to his Glidden Tour participation, he also won two of the four Chicago Motor Club competitions in 1907, driving Pierce Arrows. These were economy runs, measuring miles per gallon. The first to Valparais, Illinois, and return for 95 miles, gas usage was 4 gallons, 2 quarts, and 11 ounces, or 20.6 miles per gallon. The second to New Carlisle, Indiana, and return, 196 miles, gas usage was 12 gallons 15-3/5 ounces, or 16.1 miles per gallon.
Stories of the early days of automotive history often are intertwined in interesting fashion. There’s record of the H. Paulman & Co. dealership selling not only Pierce Arrows up into the 1920’s, but also the Velie automobile. This is only interesting in the sense that, if Mr. Paulman had a good customer and friend in Mr. Glessner, surely those relationships were strained when the name Velie was mentioned. Willard Lamb Velie was an executive of Deere & Company until 1921, though he sold his own branded tractors and automobiles. Deere was the largest competitor of International Harvester in the farm implement business, and though there was a slight degree of separation, surely the name irked John Glessner, having made his fortune as Vice President of the latter company.
The Glessner House on Prairie Avenue is famous for its architectural style and features, and some of the facts in the story can be seen on the following website: http://glessnerhouse.blogspot.com/2012/06/glessners-and-their-automobiles.html
There’s a list that was issued by PAMCC of all the dealers, I think I have a copy, but of course it would be limited by the date of issue as other dealers might be added later. Paulman was a major player, and I wouldn’t be shocked if he had Chicago for his own….
another
another
In a not so long ago issue of the Arrow, I wrote a story about this dealership, attached pictures of one of the give aways….
I forgot to mention, Sonnenland is a “German” top material, that’s the connection I made to your comment!
I agree that engine work has really become expensive, not to mention the rebuilding of the accessories and attachments to such an engine.
I’ve bought and sold a lot of cars, and should have learned my lesson, but within the last couple of years bought two cars (non-Pierce) that seemed to be GREAT deals. Neither were running. The first one started, I thought the gas tank was empty but had traces of old, bad, gas, gummed up valves, locking them up and making pretzels out of pushrods. Big bucks. The second, I knew it needed engine work, but wasn’t quite prepared for how much, from fan hub to back of transmission, everything needed rebuild. This one, not real expensive, but time consuming, as marque specialist working on it is trading me for upholstery work.
It’s so hard to judge a car’s mechanical condition, but one needs to at least hear it run and drive it, and be comfortable there are no major issues. If not, there should be a MAJOR discount in acquisition price, assume the worst.
I know of a Packard V-12 that’s having a hard time finding a new home, because last time it was started, there was exhaust smoke and a knock in the engine.
Fun stuff…..
I like your body color choices. I’m familiar with Sonnenland top material (actually a Haartz product too), and there is a dark green available. That and a dark green leather interior might work, but it’ll be tricky to get all the green shades to match. Green is almost as bad as gray, trying to get 2 or 3 different shades to blend!
It’s my personal opinion that top and interior choices can make or break the overall look of the car, and trying to get too fancy can ruin it.
Of course, as always, it’s your car and your choice, but if I were doing the car I’d lean toward traditional trim treatments. Dark green interior and black top, black interior and black top. I’m not sure how tan interior and top would work with the “bronze” body color. It would work with the green, but just not sure on the main body color.
Just my thoughts, but intent should be to end up with a car that gets an “Oh Wow” and not an “Oh Gee”!!!
On another note, make sure your painter gets all the way around on the jambs on the doors, the upholstery panels don’t really go all the way to the edge. I made this mistake on my ’31 phaeton, see attached picture…
Whew, I was worried about what colors you were going to pick, but that looks nice! I like that the green is a dark shade.
Of course, being a hobbyist trimmer, I would question the top material. If it’s Haartz/Stayfast, there’s only one greenish color available, and it’s much lighter than the paint you show.
What color interior! Black I hope, or?
As far as pinstripe goes, body color on the green would work, unless you’re doing something different with wheel color, and then you might want to match stripe to wheel color.
Good progress!
