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On my 35 the freewheeling has the push pull handle, the “normal” position is all the way in and freewheeling, pulled out is what we would consider normal now, transmission always engaged. The freewheeling is kinda nice driving around town, less shifting, just have to remember to dump the clutch coming to a stop.
33-35 has the Stewart Warner power mechanical brake that Rolls also used. It is mounted on the back of the transmission activated by driveshaft torque via a wet clutch. 36-38 used a more conventional vacuum booster on the mechanical brakes to accommodate an overdrive.
Something to bear in mind is Pierce was still using babbitt connecting rod bearings which are prone to failure, particularly in later year rebuilds. Modification to more modern steel backed inserts generally a good idea if you are planning to do long distance driving.
I see crazy numbers for rebuilding any big prewar engine, 8 or twelve.
Randy, yes the fitting that screws into the oil gallery adjacent to the water pump driveshaft is the oil filter bypass regulator in case the oil filter is clogged.
Greg, great to see you back here!
The K-S sending unit has always given me mental fits, even back when my brain worked better. A seemingly simple fluid statics problem, At any rate, I drilled a 1/16 hole at the top of the filler neck and put a tiny downspout on the outside to divert any splashing down the gap between the fender and filler neck.
I think that blows that theory. Seems like it must be for some sort of pressure or flow regulator.
Curious, my first thought was perhaps a solid tappet plunger to replace the hydraulic, but don’t know why there is a brass piece in the middle and doesn’t look like the locks if it is for adjustment. How many are there, 16?. Measurements of the two diameters might provide clues. The smaller would be .499 if intended to drop into the cam follower body.
Great looking car Randy!
Thinking of your horn questions on previous thread. I think the horns on my ’35 are different notes but I had trouble getting them to sound, a very delicate adjustment, When I did get them both to work awhile back they sounded kinda “tinny” so not sure they are 100% and representative of what they should be.
Thanks Dave for tracking pencool status down and Robert’s NAPA Kool suggestion.
I had very good results with the Grain It technologies guy but of course he is not in LA. He sells kits for DIY but also will do jobs himself. I originally had all my woodgrain done by a guy in Missouri using the Grain It system but when I discovered years later I had two LH rears Cislak found a RH but meanwhile I discovered the guy in Missouri had closed up shop. I had Grain It do the RH. He did a great job matching to what the other guy had done with excellent quality.
I didn’t have any issues with damage in shipping in any of the first or second rounds. The first round shipping everything (dash, and all window mouldings, etc) I adapted a large Home Depot flat screen TV shipping box.
Some lead or Redline sodium additive is a good idea to prevent valve seat recession of your prewar low compression engine if it is driven at highway speeds for significant periods. Probably not needed for more relaxed driving. This was an ongoing debate in the 90’s with a lot of misunderstanding with many Pierce-o-philes claiming Pierces were immune. I did some in depth technical research and published articles in CCCA and Packard Cormorant in the ’90’s. After it appeared Eric Rosenau and a few others contacted me saying some Pierces had bad valve recession after long highway trips. My updated PASB article going into this can be viewed on this site as PASB 2016-3.
I used to get jerry cans of 145 octane purple after the Reno Air races or 100LL to use as an additive to get a minimum .1 gram per gallon in the tank. 100LL had 2 grams/gallon TEL, low jead relative to 145 purple that had 4.6 grams/gallon. When leaded regular was being phased out in the ’80’s it was limited to .1 gram/gallon, the minimum to prevent valve seat recession without hardened seats. Switched to Redline sodium when it became dicey getting avgas at the airport.
I would drop the pan and remove the oil pump before trying to turn by hand, my 35 Eight was stuck and fortunately didn’t romp on it too hard as the hangup was actually a small bit of rust particle jammed in the oil pump gearing.
I tried SMS fabrics for my Pierce a couple years ago, and we went through this conversation then. I guess they are fine if you can afford to send your money upfront into a black hole for a year or two and hope eventually something shows up sans communication on status or schedule. Worse than trying to talk to someone at the IRS. I had picked the material off an available material sample card with no indication it wasn’t in stock. It would have been one thing if they had been upfront about the material not being in inventory before taking my money and would require some unknown months or years before they get around to making it. The first call I was able to finally get through to someone about why I hadn’t seen a tracking number was an excuse that they take three weeks to process an order. Waited 4 weeks and finally after multiple voice mail and email messages they finally told me they had to manufacture the material and it would be an unknown number of months. Looking at the litany of BBB complaints it seems many customers wait for years.
Maybe they have gotten their act together since, but anyone considering using them should go in prepared.
And yes, I have a 36 Packard which has been enjoyed for 35 reliable years on many trips including the first date with my wife. I tried to buy the Pierce I now own before I found the Packard but the owner changed his mind and decided not to sell it. 10 years later after I restored the Packard he was ready to sell and I spent ten years restoring the Pierce. I wasnt going to wait for a few more years to get upholstery. I guess I should be banned from PAS.
I put mine back together a couple years ago and think I remember how I did it. What problems are you having? I reinstalled the control arms onto the louvers of each side first with the special shoulder rivets, making unwieldy assemblies of each side. Of course important to get the control arms attached to the correct louver in the correct position to attach the actuation arms. The outer louvers of course step down in length. I used electrical tape across bottom and top of the louvers to keep them manageable and the pins in approximate position. I don’t recall for sure but I think I just put one screw loose on each side connecting the arm of the piece that has the upper pin sockets and mechanism to the side plate (connected to the lower “beard”. This let’s the upper piece move and rotate up a bit to give some clearance to drop the upper pins into their sockets. I put the taped louvers into the bottom sockets first then worked the upper pins in, all one by one and of course there is a lot of back and forth as pins drop out while monkeying around getting another pin in next to it.
Yes, a note to look for links under in the P&S directory would help. Also, in these cases a line in the P&S directory under “electrical” could help.
That’s great! I didn’t realize the link was there. I wonder if it would make sense to add the links for these kinds of guides/manuals to the service and owners manual section? I see the general wiring tuneup guide has been added there. It didn’t occur to me to look in the parts/service directory spreadsheet.
Thanks! Jim
Herb, thanks for digging this up! I will be curious to look these up. I finally found another source, a Standard Auto Electricians Guide which covers most US auto electrical systems for 1927 to 1937 and has a good explanation of this regulator. It mentions the drum resistor which is a bit of a mystery. My Pierce unit on the right is the wire wound unit, the Packard on the left is solid. The guide states in 1933 the wire wound was replaced with a solid carbon unit. My Pierce is 1935 and Steve P.’s posts in 2021 with the identical two regulators also shows wire wound on Pierce and solid drum on Packard. According to the manual, the resistance of the newer solid style can be adjusted by changing the tightness of the mounting screw. I tried doing that but found little difference in resistance with screw tension, my ohmmeter dances between .8 and .9 ohm independent of tension. However, the guide says the drum is carbon, but it looks like sintered bronze to me, so maybe this was another change in the later Packard units. Curious that the Pierce 1935 unit apparently retained the older wire wound 2 years later, particularly since it looks like Pierce only used it for early 1935 models.
Another quirk is that the Pierce wiring and tuneup guide shows the regulator as a 21262, but the Guide says 21732 which is mentioned in other posts on this forum. The 21262 is listed in the Packard parts books for 1935 and several years prior, so may be less challenging to find.
The tension on the bimetallic control arm is much stiffer on the Packard unit, perhaps a misadjustment. The detail design of the bimetallic strips are different. Both of these regulators failed due to the connection of the very fine resistance wire breaking and had been repaired before. A very delicate soldering operation. I am thinking that to substitute a Packard regulator would require changing the resistor to get 2 ohms.
I’m hoping between the Autolite manual and the Auto Elecrrician Guide I can get this sorted out better.
By the way, several posts mention the extra “gen” connection for Startix on Packard regulators. Startix was an option on Packard and the ignition switch has two “on” positions, “regular” and Startix. I use the extra position to operate with or without electric fuel pump.
I didn’t have it relined. When I had it apart the original lining was in excellent condition with no apparent wear. Took a few tweaks to the wheel adjustment to keep it from going stage left or right but pretty close now. The big external brake shoe adjustment nut is much handier than the classic star ratchet tool on most old cars. I had always been curious about how the system would work per original and wanted to have original brake clutch lining and brake linings. Unfortunately the brake linings were too thin and had to replace them, and of course can’t get original composition asbestos so not a true recreation. So far though they seem to work well.
I’m chasing a backfire problem riding compression on downhills and the freewheeling also avoids alarming bangs.
Another member was looking for a 37 grille in June and found one. The pictures of mine and the original are 1935. Some back and forth with him made me think the 37 might have had a different mounting scheme instead of the 4 mounting screws. You might contact Steve to see what he found, you can find his contact info via a search for “speaker” on the forum.
Based on another picture of an original I believe the original grille was painted brass. I saw a youtube of another restored Pierce with everything chrome plated. I suspect that wasnt the original finish but dont know. I made mine from aluminum and sanded it to resemble brushed stainless. The grille is dished out slightly so it needed to be formed a bit with a metal that wouldnt spring back too much. The outer rings are stainless. The fabric behind the grille was a radio speaker cloth typical of the era. There are some vendors of repro speaker cloths with a Google search. Lots of browns with metallic threads interwoven.
I have laser cutting CAD files to reproduce the grille, the pattern is very close but the outer rings are laser cut and glued rather than rolled. Better if you can find an original but if not this is an alternative.
An original:
Mine is an Eight but I believe it serves the same function on a 12. It is set up to bypass the oil filter if it becomes clogged.
You can find information doing a keyword search on the PAS service bulliten directory. Meanwhile, I have had two issues with zero oil pressure, one is the floto screen (the oil pump inlet screen) plugged with junk, or the oil pressure regulator valve piston stuck. The former was from accumulated junk, the second (brand X) a rebuilt oil pump with a burr left in the regulator sleeve. Could possibly be the oil pressure relief spring broken from corrosion. These entail dropping the pan to inspect.
You could verify that the gauge isn’t the issue first. Unscrew the line from the engine oil port going to the gauge and pressurize the gauge with an air compressor and regulator. I would set the regulator for no more than 40 psi to avoid damaging the gauge.
