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My’35 has Lovejoy shocks that still have the adjustment valve on the bottom, it is manually adjustable on the shock but didn’t have the levers and hookups to do it remotely from the dash. I have the same problem, the seal around the adjustment shaft weeps on two of them. Apple hydraulics quoted $80.00 each to rebuild (just the adjustment valve seal).
It appears the same shock was used in some Cadillac’s and a cross-section appears in the 1948 MoTorS manual.
I also had a cracked crush washer on one that was causing a leak. I couldn’t find an exact match for that crush washer and am hoping Apple has them.
Jim
David, I had a shop do the wood grain on my ’35 a couple years ago, he does it using the “Grain-It Technologies” method rather than hand painted. It is supposedly the original process used by the factories (I don’t claim to know). His sight is http://www.ucuap.com. He has a large site with before and after pictures including mine if you click on ’35 Pierce-Arrow. He is quite reasonable and his prices are posted on the site, I think the quality and service was excellent with one problem – color. A PAS member graciously took pictures of his original dash for me that I sent along to provide a color match. the ’35 has two different grains on the dash, as you can see on the site and compare to pictures of other ’35’s the inside dash color came out more towards gray. If you use him it might be better to choose from the color charts he has and get some samples before proceeding.
I ended up a bit torn, before I had it done I wasn’t enamored with the original colors – too much brown, so what I have I actually like better but it is off from the original.
Jim
Looking at the Evaporust site they have a “Thermocure” product specifically for cooling systems.
It appears Evaporust itself doesn’t need heat to work, just speeds it up?
I ask because I rigged up an aboveground pool pump and filter to flush the block without the radiator (run for days) before running the engine. Sounds like it might be worthwhile to repeat that step with either the evaporust or Thermocure to get the last of it.
I figured that no amount of cleaning and flushing was going to dislodge everything that will come loose with a hot engine vibrating at full power so I installed a Tefba radiator filter and rare earth magnet to catch the chunks big enough to plug the radiator – I think it is handier than the pantyhose to check and clean, but of course not hidden.
Jim
It is also critical in keeping the points alive to make sure the spark plug gap is correct. I was burning points and getting misses because I thought I remembered the proper gap – and was wrong.
Jim
Tony, until you get your vacuum sorted out….
The last part of my tome on vapor lock in PASB will cover mechanical and electric fuel pumps, but I don’t have any experience with vacuum pumps, and I don’t know what the limits of pressure are for them. However, basically I have found only three 6 volt electric pumps available anymore. There are two versions of the small Airtex thumper pumps, they look to be identical except one is rated for 4-6 psi and the other 3-4 psi. I believe the higher pressure is E8011 and the lower is E8902 but you can confirm on the Airtex website. I use them for priming the carburetor mainly. I haven’t had very good luck with them. The third 6V pump is the rotary which is overkill in terms of flow and goes up to 8 psi and definitely needs a pressure regulator. They are available as both an Airtex E84259 and a Carter P4259. I have one of these on my Pierce with an adjustable Holley regulator. It initially was adjusted to near zero fuel pressure so I think it should work. I got it from Summit racing in Sparks.
Jim
Here is one that doesn’t work, a trial fitup. I installed one of these on my Packard, it is removable and replaceable with the original but is too long on my 845 Eight Pierce, the fan blade would hit it. Perhaps it could be used on other P-A models. It is Purolator A24630 and was great because it has a pretty large flow area. Back to the drawing board on the Pierce 8.
Looking at the K&N site they have one universal filter that might be adaptable for driving use by cutting the rubber universal clamp flange off and using the original Pierce end cap and screws to hold it on. It could then be swapped with the original for show by removing the two end nuts. It would stick out from the body .25″. It is K&N number RU-1850, 7.50″ OD, 6.0″ ID, 4.5″ long.
The wrap mentioned above looks like it is just to keep the big chunks out which is all the original P-A mesh filter does. It is mainly to extend the life of a finer filter under it. Neither is going to keep the fine sand particles out that are the biggest cause of wear to the ring and bore – particularly if the engine only has basic cast iron top compression rings. Engines were commonly re-rung at 15000 miles back then.
When the paper pleated air filters were introduced they were perhaps the biggest improvement to reduce ring and cylinder wear together with chrome rings. They are more effective at filtration than the oil baths that became popular in the 1930’s, but I think the main reason they weren’t adopted earlier was cars were still being driven on dirt roads and a fine mesh filter would plug too quickly. The oil bath doesn’t filter as well but can tolerate a lot more dirt.
Perhaps not authentic, but a pleated air filter will keep more of the original authentic metal in the cylinder when driven. I hate digging out the fine metal particles from the magnetic plug when I change oil.
Jim
I had the same thought, and looked through her art online to see if the Silver Arrow looking car was from one of her pieces. It doesn’t look like it, her main auto related piece being a self portrait in a Bugatti. Sex and nudes seemed to have been a bigger interest to her. Not that there’s anything wrong with that.
Jim
By coincidence I just remounted Lovejoy shocks back onto my ’35 yesterday. I don’t know if you are having the same problem on your ’31 removing the shock, but for what it is worth: It was a bit tricky as mentioned. The hole to fit the socket through to turn the nut is slightly too small to fit a standard 15/16 socket. Maybe sockets were thinner back then. When I removed them a few years ago I wasted most of an afternoon looking for different sockets trying to find one slightly thinner. I didn’t find one. I ended up slowly cutting the OD down on a socket by grinding – I used a hand grinder to cut down a 1/2″ drive 15/16 standard socket mounted in a lathe.
It needs to be a standard socket – not a deep. A deep will stick out of the hole in the frame and bind when trying to turn because of the tight clearance after grinding down to the minimum possible to keep from weakening the socket too much.
Another trick when trying to reinstall is getting the split washer onto the stud without dropping it inside the channel. My fingers aren’t long or dexterous enough. I used a short length of brass tube the diameter of the stud to push against the stud while using a larger ID PVC pipe to push the split ring onto the stud. Mount the socket on a short extension, put the nut in the socket and use the extension to push the nut onto the stud and twist by hand to get it started. This was a surpizingly awkward task.
Good luck!
Jim
Ed, do you know if the earlier ’33 design tappets interchange with my ’35 design, i.e. either style plunger can drop into the same cam follower?
Jim
Tony, I had a post a couple years ago on this message board that showed cutaways from the two basic designs from earlier PASB’s. Just do a search using tappet. Presumably a Seagraves NOS would be the ’36-38 design that was built in large numbers during WWII as they were used in a Cadillac powered tank. Egge bought up
that inventory, or so I understand.
Jim
Actually, it could be that the external spring tappet plungers like mine are interchangeable with the original internal spring ’33 design. I don’t have a’33 tappet to compare dimensions, but the diameter of the cam follower in the block is the same .688 as reported in PASB 80-5 and the action of the check valve is the same whereas the ’36-38 design is quite different with a larger bore diameter and the check valve works upside down relative to the first design, despite also having an external spring.
Jim
What is “PCS””? Jim”
The way I did it for a single tappet of course was very tedious and time consuming doing it on hobbiest lathe and mill. They could be produced professionally on a CNC, but I have no idea what it would cost. I do have CAD drawings that could be used. The tappet I replaced could be also be used for a pattern, if I take off the brass skirt I added.
One issue on getting them reproduced is how many need them? I believe mine might have been produced for only part of the 1935 model year as they don’t match the designs seen in the PASB’s for either ’33-35 or the ’36-38 design. Mine have external springs and a tapered nose but basic diameter dimensions of the first design. That was one of the reasons I decided to try and make one.
The inside diameters of the tappet follower bodies seemed to be very consistent (.500) so the plungers could probably be ground to a consistent diameter and be interchangeable (.499). The originals were also surface hardened for wear resistance, my replacement isn’t but the surface area is very large with flooding oil flow lubrication, and the side loading is virtually non-existent, so within the limited miles this engine will ever see I don’t think that is an issue. The plunger I replaced did not appear to be worn, I think it was undersized from the get-go.
Jim
This can be done theoretically with a very simple circuit using a single zener diode and one resistor. It would output constant 5 volts from an unregulated supply of more than 6 volts. The circuit must be sized for more than the maximum current draw the device will use and it will draw that current constantly as long as it is getting voltage from the car battery regardless of what the draw is from the device. If you made a circuit that doesn’t work, the first question is making sure it is wired for positive ground instead of negative.
Although less elegant, an inexpensive 6-12V volt step-up converter connected to a standard 12v to USB 5V stepdown is quicker and cheaper. A bit like FedEx packages flying from San Francisco to Los Angeles via Memphis.
I have a 6-12v step up converter to run a hidden 12V stereo that is considerably more sophisticated and efficient (You can have an authentic radio or authentic music, but not both). The step-up converter draws miniscule current when the radio is off and still delivers the tiny voltage to keep the presets in the radio. As long as I drive the car maybe once a month it doesn’t drain enough from the battery to prevent starting. I bought it on Amazon for $29 and it has 10 amp max output, can be connected to positive or negative ground ( Although anything like the negative ground radio has to be isolated from the positive ground car to keep from shorting).
Jim
David, the check is in the mail – no really! Thanks for doing this!
Jim
I have a ’35 back piece with the glass tube and capillary tube still attached. The sending unit and spring covered tube were cut off. I have a face plate that is in fairly good condition , it is still quite readable but the white is tinged brown and a little has flaked off. I don’t seem to have a bezel or glass.
Send me an email and I should be able to send a picture.
Jim
I’m not sure how to reset the cross bar – on mine I think the only option to reduce clearance is bending it in after reinstalling or putting in a larger diameter cross bar. My crossbar is just a tiny diameter pin. Actually, now I recall that when I ended up building a new seat for one of my tappets (not the current suspects) I came up with an alternative way to retain the check ball and adjust the clearance. I guess I blanked that bad experience out of my mind!
Meanwhile I am cogitating to understand what I am hearing vs what I am seeing. Listening with a stethoscope the tapping is clearest on the block near the valve seats – implying the noise comes from the valve hitting the seat at a higher velocity. This implies it is coming from the lifter leaking down while it is pushing the valve up and the valve is hitting the seat harder because it is ahead of the deceleration part of the cam. The tapping clearly goes away increasing RPM above ~1000.
Without thinking about it, I originally expected the noise to be more easily detectable on the tappet blocks with the idea the noise is from having valve lash and it is coming from the cam hitting the tappet or the tappet hitting the valve stem as in a mechanical tappet with lash.
Has anyone noted with a stethoscope whether their tapping seemed to be closer to the valve seat or closer to the the tappets? I haven’t really thought it through but it might be relevant to diagnosing whether a tappet’s problem is from a leaking check valve, too much bore clearance, or too much clearance between the cross bar and the ball.
I am thinking about an alternative test for leakdown, and will probably end up replacing the balls and lapping the seats. I will check the clearance between checkballs and crossbars as well. Not keen to press those tiny crossbars out!
Thanks, Jim
Thanks, I got the lifter block out. I am trying to get the engine and drivetrain working well before doing the bodywork, so I am hoping to get it quiet before resorting to STP or thick oil. I don’t have any fenders or hood on the car so it is easy to see and get to them now. I tried something else that worked okay. After getting the lifter block loose and tilted out from under the valve stems and still resting at an angle on the cam I pulled each tappet out of its cam follower bore, keeping each one in its own marked bag to keep from getting them mixed up. I screwed short bolts and washers into a short piece of rubber fuel line that created a bit of a taper fit and I jammed them into each cam follower bore. That had enough tension to keep the bolt and washer attached to the cam followers preventing them from dropping out of the block as I pulled it out of the engine.
When the engine was running there was a lot more oil coming out of #11 and 12, and much less out of #9. Now that they are out I did a quick test to see if 11 or 12 seemed to be obviously leaking more than 9 using the bubble test described by the factory in the PASB’s. Nothing very definitive. I had already done a lot of cleaning and bubble testing when I assembled the engine a year and a half ago and had lapped the seat and replaced the check balls on a couple. Will do more diagnosis next weekend.
Jim
Keeping enthusiasm up to finish is very difficult. The amount of time and treasure huge and impossible to justify practically, particularly if the car is worth a lot more in parts than whole. The “eating the elephant by taking one bite at a time” metaphor being apropos. Being a rare and very desirable body style Richard’s car likely is worth enough to pay back the investment in money if not time.
A friend of mine lost all ambition years ago after paying for poor machine shop work from supposed experts. He is disillusioned about having any work done by “professionals”. He has piles of multiple cars torn down.
Personally I am always at the edge of that point – when I did my Packard 30 years ago part of what kept me going was the people who saw the pile of rusty parts too polite to say what they are thinking – this guy will never finish this. That kept me going as much as anything. Having proved it once on a rougher car, I don’t have that incentive on my P-A.
Jim
I was heavily influenced by the Virgil Exner ’66 Classic revival series, particularly the P-A and they were a big factor of in my interest in mid ’30’s Classics. Most of them were in my view quite ugly when you got to the full model as opposed to the basic side views of the picture on the box. The ’66 Pierce looked great to me from all angles. The ’66 Bugatti was the also very good looking and I finally found one of those models unbuilt a few years ago. I have the remains of a ’66 P-A kit I built in the 60’s and an unbuilt kit I found on Ebay a few years ago.
I once scaled the measurements of the P-A and found it would have been about 22′ long for what amounts to a 4 seat club sedan!
I have had idle thoughts at times that a mid ’70’s Datsun 240 or 280Z could be modified into smaller reasonable facsimile that could be a pretty nice car.
Jim
