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Great information, Peter, thanks.

It would seem to explain all, except that:

-Tom Derro listed his car in the roster as 360007 at one point

-the interior in the car Tom Derro showed appears to be different than that interior in 360007 when it went through the B/J auction

-Ed has it on good authority that a Silver Arrow still resides in Tom Derro’s garage

I love a good mystery! It would seem that the only “positive” thing about a missing car is that 360002 had the rear body hacked off by John Grimage so he could haul firewood, possibly in the late 40’s or early 50’s in Baltimore, and there’s no record of that car being rebuilt or rebodied, so it probably ended up in a junk yard and was destroyed.

360004 is the most intriguing of the group, as it seems to have disappeared as a whole, and with the world as such a big place, it could very well be in a garage somewhere, with my guess being overseas….I think a person or family would be hard pressed to hide such a high profile car in the United States…

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These cars have great lines. Sitting outside, even under a tarp and in dry California, is never kind to a car…

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Ed, no rush…from the interior color, it would appear that the Derro car was NOT the one sold at the B/J auction.

The question now would be what serial number is Derro’s car, as the serial number of the one sold at the B/J auction was documented in auction literature as 360007. There is a reference at some point that the Derro car is “number 1”, and if so maybe it’s 360001?

Thanks and safe travels, Ed…..

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I believe you, Ed, just trying to figure out which car is which, no valid reason for doing so other than curiosity!

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Here’s a picture of the front seat of the car that was auctioned by Barrett Jackson and now lives in San Francisco. Is this the Derro car, I do notice pointed flap on the door panel…..?

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There was documentation that Tom Derro’s car was/is 360007, the car that was auctioned by BJ and now resides in San Francisco.

Are you saying that the Derro car is NOT 360007? If so, what number is it?

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OK, so to summarize, attached is the list as I see it now. I’m sure that a better, more complete, list exists, but I’m doing this for my entertainment! It would seem that 360005 and 360007 are well known and documented cars, 360001 still exists, and 360002 and 36004 are “missing or assumed destroyed””.

Any comments or corrections welcome!”

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Brooks…no, I’m surely not advocating closing further discussion! It just seems odd that the history of at least two of the cars is murky, two are well documented, and the third seems to be somewhere in between.

I really don’t think the Kouri car started out as a Silver Arrow, I think it was an engine that got put into a custom car. Just common sense seems to preclude that premise, why take a custom car, one of five, and make another, ummmm, uglier, custom out of it? I’ve stood next to the Kouri car when it was at Harrah’s, and it has no feel of Pierce, sans the engine.

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I think it’s interesting that Model T was made in the numbers of 15 million, Model T guys can pinpoint a car’s manufacture almost to the hour, and we can’t identify 5 very special cars in a definite manner!

Thanks to all who’ve posted, very interesting.

My personal opinion is the Kouri roadster is in no way a Pierce Arrow, but a full custom car that happens to use a Pierce engine. My other opinion is that it’s unfortunate looking, but I’ll keep that opinion to myself!

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Thanks, Peter, I searched a little but didn’t run across that gem….once I get the item I’ll give my opinion of it and post a picture, it looks much more modern than the late teens, but again, want to hold it in my grubby hand before passing further judgement. I’m still not convinced it’s very old, but it’s just interesting to me that it’s the first object I’ve ever seen that joins the PAMCC and aviation.

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Aha, could very well be….

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Happy Thanksgiving to all, we all have a lot for which to be thankful..

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The real message is, get it fixed before you drive it again…look at what happened to this Auburn with the same problem…

http://forums.aaca.org/topic/266081-equipment-failure/

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I know you fly in your Pierce’s, Ed. You’re just like a friend of mine who has a little collection of cars, he drives on a LOT of AACA tours, and has a small restoration shop in Pennsylvania take care of his cars. The owner of the restoration shop, last year at Hershey, asked me how good a friend I was of the fellow, and I said we’re very close. The fellow then asked me “please, get Marty to lighten up on the accelerator pedal, he breaks them and I have to fix”….

Yes, some motorcycle engines were put in planes, as well as Ford engines..the Pietenpol was the infamous Model A engine powered plane..

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Here is a discussion of the Kouri car, and if you scroll down the responses you’ll come to a set of pictures, and information and comments by the owner of the car (at least in 2014, still in that collection?)

http://forums.aaca.org/topic/104989-kouri-v-12-speedster/

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Through the plastic it sure looks like the fitting for the bottom end of the steering column….and in the picture with it hanging off the side of the frame, it seems to be in the right location for that….

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Thanks Greg….I never re-installed the tool pouches after the last restoration of my phaeton, so will plan to put it on the panel as shown in pictures….

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A picture would help. There’s a large “coupling” that goes to the bottom of the steering column, but other than that I’m not aware of a large coupling going to the dash…..

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Rick, let me know what tools you need, I have a container of over a hundred Pierce script tools, with some duplicates….

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I guess it is hard to explain. My tool pouches were in the door with the pouches facing the inside of the car, thus mounted to the driver door itself, not the flat door that opens. These are mounted with the pouches facing to the OUTSIDE of the car, on the flat door. There was nothing on my flat door (the one that hinges down and has the key lock)other than a single covering.

Interesting. thanks!

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