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Dave, the Gano is NOT suitable for S80/81 because those cars have a very short upper hose between the inlet of the radiator and the cast neck we’ve been talking about–and that hose length is much too short for a Gano plastic housing, unless they’ve recently developed a real “shorty” version. I just measured the upper radiator hose on my S80 sedan and it is 3.5 inches long INCLUDING the overlaps for clamping on the neck and the radiator inlet. In fact, when installing a new (stiff) upper radiator hose I have to remove the neck from the cylinder head and use that leverage to wrestle the assembly back into place.

I’m certainly in favor of buying from our advertisers when their product is suitable for the specific application. I use the stockings for all my vehicles, including modern, and find they catch more debris than the Ganos.

Jack, I suggest that you use the ankle-high stockings (cheap ones are fine–I bought a box of 20 for less than $7 at Walgreens). Install as per Greg’s instruction.

Nalcool is no more–it is now Pencool. Use Pencool 2000 with NO anti-freeze and Pencool 3000 if you have any amount of anti-freeze in your system. Amazon is the best source I’ve found: I just received a shipment of six 64 oz jugs (half-gallon–most convenient size for me) which cost a bit less than $130. I’m servicing several vehicles, and six jugs will last me about five years. To save you doing math as to dosage, for the initial fill add 1 oz of Pencool per quart of cooling system capacity. A S80/81 has a 26 quart system, so you’ll need 26 oz for the initial fill. I carry a one-gallon jug of water on tour pre-loaded with 4 oz of Pencool. Top off ONLY when hot to avoid overfilling.

Jack, when you FIRST have the cooling system together, I suggest you run a cooling system cleaner with tap water AND a stocking filter to catch all the stuff that has been loosened but not removed so far. Ed Minnie is a proponent of an EvapoRust product for cleaning cooling systems as you drive; please chime in, Ed. Whenever you’ve run a cleaning chemical through the system, change the stocking because it may have been weakened by the cleaning chemical.

When I acquire a “new” car, one of my first actions is to assess the cooling system condition and add a stocking filter. After 300 miles or so, drain off enough coolant (you can re-use), and remove and inspect the stocking. How much debris is in the stocking will inform your choice of the next drain-and-clean-the-stocking interval. Rinse out the stocking and reinstall. Especially for little-used cars, repeated heating and cooling cycles will break loose a lot of debris from the block which, without a filter, would be trying to clog your radiator. This is even more critical when you’ve had a radiator recored or professionally cleaned.

Last month I changed out the radiator hoses on my 1930 roadster (after 10-12 years), and changed the stocking as well. The stocking was intact and had only the tiniest amount of debris, extremely fine particles, which I doubt a Gano would have caught. The top tank of the radiator was sparkling clean. If you’re fortunate enough to not have to top off frequently (my 1930 and 1934 take less than a quart every 700 miles, others need more), add 6 oz of Pencool annually as a replenishment dose.

I have been running distilled, Pencool, and stocking filters (my climate does not require anti-freeze) for 12-15 years and am delighted with the cleanliness of all cooling systems.

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Not that I know of. If you use reflector fasteners, they should be glass, not plastic.

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BRAVO, Greg!

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Congratulations, Chuck!!!

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Happy Birthday, Dave, and many many more!

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For what it may be worth: Bill, on my 1918 dual valve I run rich (“heavy”) to just below the point where there is visible exhaust. To see if you’re running too lean (“light”), with a warmed up engine running in 4th gear at 30 mph, suddenly floor the accelerator–if it backfires, it’s too lean, and if it stumbles/loads up, you’re too rich.

The higher your speed, the more you should enrichen the mixture. These knobs do NOT function like choke knobs, which you can forget about once the engine is warm; be thinking about how rich/lean you’re running and tweak the knob every so often. Those adjustable-main-jet carbs are very handy at altitude: On the Modoc going thru 6,000 ft and on Glidden in Idaho last year at 7,000 ft, I could lean out during climbs and richen as we descended. Fixed-jet cars were puking black smoke at 7,000 ft.

There’s a near-infinite range of adjustment due to the clamp on the main jet rod. Supporting Ed’s idea of a gas analyzer, it might be useful to have that done ONCE and change the clamp position so that optimum adjustment at perhaps 40 mph UNDER LOAD at your home altitude represents “40%” rich on the amount of travel of your heavy-light knob. I do that on Series 80 rich-lean levers by ear and vacuum gauge, as I don’t have a gas analyzer. At least you’re in the ballpark.

Better to pump out some black smoke occasionally than to burn valves–and in dual valve engines, a too-lean mixture will often lead to a cracked block.

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ONE Optima turns over my 1918 48-B-5 very nicely. I run ONE in my Series 80. I run TWO in parallel in my 8-cylinder Pierces primarily for the reserve capacity during nighttime driving. Optimas have about 100 amp-hrs (AH) reserve capacity each. The Group 3 wet cell battery originally furnished in 8-cyl cars had 140 AH and the Group 4 in 12-cyl cars had 165 AH.

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Paul Johnson sent me a list of available Parts Catalogs in the PAS Library, and the years 1936 through 1938 are NOT among them. That is, in 62 years of the Society’s existence, we don’t have one. I’ll make a major leap and say PROBABLY none were issued.

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Greg and Ken, you’ve set a new Gold Standard for PAS Meets! You’re SO good at this that perhaps you should be the permanent Meet arranger

Dave Stevens, Annie and I are most grateful that you brought Percy, the 1925 80 coupe which I owned for 21 years and now owned by the Museum, and allowed us to put about 240 miles on it. That was the perfect cap for our meet experience.

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Nobody I know has ever seen a 1936 (or 1937 or 1938) parts book.

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Congratulations! Very sorry you had to go through all those hoops, but it may help to keep peace in the family that outsiders had a fair chance at the car. I think this was the best possible outcome for you, never mind all the angst getting there.

Please make every possible effort to bring yourself and the car to the Meet, because you have made a lot of friends here who are eager to help you.

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For Judging Standards purposes, may we agree that EITHER Delco or Dyneto starter and generator equipment is correct for 1934-35 cars? The PAS (not “Pierce-Arrow”) Wiring and Tuneup Guide consists of pages copied from National Service Data (NSD- aftermarket) manuals, and both are derivative (i.e., secondary) sources, whereas the Anson notes are those of a P-A engineer and thus a primary source. Notwithstanding those notes, it seems clear that for whatever reasons a number of 1934-35 cars built after the Anson dates and engine numbers left the factory with Delco equipment.

However, I suggest that both units (starter and generator) on any given car should be of the same make.

Pierce continued to use Delco *ignition* through the end. The only Dyneto equipment consisted of starters and generators.

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Paul, the Bernie Weis recension tables indicate that the change from Delco to Owen-Dyneto occurred with 1934 8-cyl engine number 305436 and 12-cyl engine number 400234. The source cited by Bernie for each is Anson’s note 18-9 dated 5/7/1934. I do not doubt that some cars built after those numbers/dates (such as yours) may well have been equipped with Delco starters and generators. Does yours have the conventional single-stage cutout as on earlier cars–or the two-stage (square box) as commonly found on the Dyneto?

For others, it’s MUCH easier –and cheaper!–to find a single-stage cutout than the two-stage….

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WOW! Way to go, Greg! I thought BobJ was the eBay king but I’ll have to re-think that….

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The Delco cutouts used through mid-1934 (when Pierce switched to Owen-Dyneto generators) originally had 266P and 265B part numbers, which were superseded in the late 1930s by the newly-standardized 7-digit Delco part number 1867781, easily found NOS on eBay by using “Delco 1867781″” as your search criteria.

That number even fits 1939 Chevrolet Standard (with 3-brush generator) and some Mercury outboard motors. Just use that “”new”” 7-digit part number.”

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Greg’s recollection is, shall I say, more “vivid” than mine of our flat in the Mojave Desert returning from the 2009 Temecula Meet on less-than-1000 miles Bedford tires with thin off-shore tubes also supplied by Lucas. That night we stayed in Bakersfield, home base of Buck Owens, as scheduled and found a tire shop first thing the following morning. The most critical info for all here is that the repro tube let go on its bonded seam. We replaced that tube with a 16″ light truck tube (what else are ya gonna find in Bakersfield on a Saturday?) which works well due to the drop center P-A wheels. That same day, a DIFFERENT new tire (had been the spare, same position: right rear) let go at 58-60 mph in 86*F weather south of San Jose on US 101. Since that was only 50 miles from home we continued without a spare (a 5-wheel car). The second tube also failed on the bonded seam. I subsequently replaced ALL the repro tubes with 16″ light truck tubes and have had no problems in 10K miles other than one flat caused by a LARGE screw through the tread.

I LOVE Bedford 17″ and 18″ tires. My 1930 roadster had Bedford 18″ blackwalls on it when I acquired it in 2002, and their tread wear is minimal–same longevity on the Bedford 17″ WSW on the SA which sees more miles. Greg and I were both impressed by how well the two Bedfords held up from flats-at-speed on hot days; those tires are still in service. Bedfords ARE large, and one needs to use Lesters and/or drop one or more sizes for fender-mounted spares. They can also be a bit noisy. The diamond tread pattern and pie-crust sidewall edges are period-correct.

I agree with Greg on the BFG repro 600x22s on Series 80s–mine are still wearing well >20 years later with no signs of age.

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Parts & Services Directory shows they’re available (16-pc set) from Blonder-Murray

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Seagrave bumped the Pierce 12 out to 531 cid, as I recall, as well as the completely different 906 cid engine in this ad. I don’t know the provenance of the 906 engine, but perhaps the Reverend Minnie or someone else can help us out.

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Not the Pierce V-12–this is the 906 cid Seagrave engine

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Merlin and Jane, thank you for yet another wonderful time!

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