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Thanks, but I’m no authority.
A Pantasote type material was what was used. This was a woven cloth base, coated on the outside surface with a waterproof material. It was the precursor to modern day vinyl, which is exactly that construction, differing only in the waterproof material used.
Eric Haartz provides what is referred to as a “replicated Pantasote”, which is basically a vinyl material that’s had varied imprinted surface textures applied. It also has varied base materials, and the inner layer’s appearance varies from solid colors to a whipcord finish, which is striped.
So, long story short, you cannot buy today the exact original material as would have been found on a 1919 Pierce. Either go with a replicated Pantasote, or go with the well known Haartz/STayfast material.
Either way, my advice is to go with an inside color that is light, to brighten up the interior of the when top is up.
Eric did a special custom job for me a few years back, taking 40 yards of replicated Pantasote with whipcord backing, “melting” the heavy grain and putting more of an original style pattern on it. It’s still vinyl, but it came out great on the four cars that now have it, and enough for one more car (mine!). Shown is 1907 Autocar top, two identical ones I did and were the reason for the custom material, as we had a beautiful original top to copy.
My 37 Cord phaeton has an antenna cleverly hidden….hanging under the car!
As to the chicken wire antenna, it would be a single wire for AM, correct? Not a coax cable….
I’m familiar with Mel, decent hides for the price, I’d be willing to bet he gets his horsehair from Wohl’s. Very few suppliers of some original materials left out there….
Wohl in Philadelphia. Recently bought 10 pounds, it’s about $24 a pound….F.P Wohl 215-9345966….
Print close up 2
Print close up 1
As an aside, and this may be common knowledge:
Kahn designed the Pierce Arrow factory buildings, but he did not design the administrative office building.
That architect was George Cary, a local Buffalo resident.
I have a few prints that show the design for the building, published in “The American Architect and Building News””. They are very interesting and show in detail the design features of the building.”
The ground wire in these cars was originally a solid bare copper wire, while an end connection might corrode, it’s hard to think that the solid wire itself would suffer.
I once put an insert in a 1932 Brougham, and it too had a charred roof! Once I removed the old top, it was nothing but black charcoal holding the top up. Only thing we could figure was the dome light shorted and the wood just smoldered, never really flaming.
Happy New Year, Kenneth, and same to all of you! It was an interesting year, and know that 2019 holds lots of new adventures…..
A little bit of trivia, the AACA Library Director, Chris Ritter, is a Pierce Arrow fan.
So much so, that he was able to talk his wife into naming his son Pierce.
And now you know the rest of the story!
The first coolant systems with a small radiator type core were used by GM in the early 30’s.
The ’37 Nash had the first “sophisticated” heating system, with controls and baffles and such.
I remember driving my ’34 Pierce sedan in 45 degree weather (that’s frigid in Louisiana, where I was at the time!) and once the engine warmed up, the interior of the car was comfortable, and got heat through the firewall.
I remember reading a long discussion of the heater topic, wish I could remember where. I believe the basic thought was that people would dress warmly, and a quality car like the Pierce was “insulated” well enough that some engine heat would come through the firewall and make it tolerable inside the car.
I think the “technology” was there, as far as hot water heaters supplied by the engine coolant, it just wasn’t a common option on most cars. I realize that you’re talking further North, but I remember up into the 1960’s that a lot of cars sold in my home state had no heaters…Louisiana….of course freezing temps were very rare there.
Thanks for the kind words, James.
I am not in any way looking for work. I’m trying to finish up a couple of promised projects, then get time to work on my own stuff.
Any comments by me are not solicitations for work. Just adding my two cents, which is more than worth in some cases!
I’d do a top every now and then, but I’m not taking any more complete jobs. Tops are a fairly straight forward project, interiors can pose a lot of other problems….
The original 34/35 Pierce closed cars I’ve seen had a solid color broadcloth, either brown or gray.
That said, a striped material could be had, I’m sure. Jenkins has two nice striped materials available, as used in the 30’s Packards, and one is $80/yard while another is $100/yard.
A complete sedan interior for that size car should run in the $12,000-$15,000 price range. You’ll have $2000 in material, a 34/35 Pierce sedan takes 15-18 yards of material. My figures include taking all seat springs apart, new socks sewn and springs inserted, so everything is new. It does NOT include any chrome or woodgrain on interior pieces. If you need to rechrome interior pieces and have the windowand dash mouldings woodgrained, you could probably add another $8,000-$10,000.
I’ve had numerous requests to do Model A or Model T tops.
The conversation usually goes like this, Owner and Me:
O: I need a top for my Ford, and I don’t like the way kits look. I want a top that really fits and looks great.
M: Ok, I can make one from scratch and it will be very nice.
O: Great! I’ve heard that you do nice tops. How much will it cost?
M: Well, materials and labor, somewhere between $3000 and $4000.
O: WHAT? That’s crazy. I can buy a kit for a few hundred dollars!
M: Yes, true, and unless put on by a professional, a kit usually looks awful, that’s why you came to me in the first place.
O: Forget it, no way I’m paying that kind of money for a simple top….
And so it goes.
If your guy had a Pebble Beach quality trimmer do a top and interior on a Model A phaeton for $6500, he got a bargain. Of course, he wouldn’t have gotten the bargain without spending the first $100K!!
I’d add a few things.
Not long ago an article of mine appeared in the ARROW about placement of springs in Pierce seats. Make sure your trimmer doesn’t take the seats apart and throw all the springs in a pile, there are specific placements for springs and pairs of springs.
Make sure he understands automotive leather. It’s usually a little thicker, has higher UV resistance, and a tougher finish to withstand the “sliding” in and out that furniture does not see.
Use a leather with some gloss to it, that will make getting in and out of car easier. A matte finish leather tends to grab your pants when sliding on it.
The seat pattern in this period Pierce touring is pretty simple. I think his price is high if he’s not very experience in open car restoration.
That said, if his price also includes a set of side curtains and a boot, then it’s closer to reasonable. A set of side curtains should cost about what a top costs, there’s that much detail to attend to. Your Pierce should also have very specific side curtain hardware, which includes rods to mount in doors and steel horizontal bars sewn into curtains to span across the top.
If you have a four bow top, there may be a pocket at the front of the rear top curtain which captures the rear side curtain. Lots of details, as mentioned, to have side curtains correct.
In my opinion, 25K should get you a top of the line job, maybe not Pebble Beach but excellent. That’s a lot of money. I know of a 1910 Stanley Steamer that had paint, upholstery, and top done by an Amish craftsman, total bill was a little over $30K and it’s beautiful.
I’d ask a lot of questions before your guy does it, maybe you already know the answers.
Does your upholstery guy have experience with early open cars? Is he going to use period materials (cotton, horsehair etc.) or foam? I strongly recommend NOT using foam, it’s not a long term material these days. Does he know how to correctly pad and form top so that it doesn’t look like a starved horse?
Hope all goes well, as you say, the upholstery guy is usually the last in line on a project, and by then the money is tight!
There are very few trimmers out there who consistently turn out what would be considered perfect, or flawless, work. Leif Drexler was one, his work was incredible. That said, I’ve had a millionaire state that he almost fainted when he got the bill. Doesn’t matter, there are people who will pay for “perfect”. He had a nickname, though, that rhymed with Leif. You figure it out….
I had one well known collector state, and I paraphrase, after I did work for him, “You’re too expensive, can we schedule the next project?”
I don’t do perfect, but I do work that the huge majority say “very nice”, and in most judging loses no points. Not bragging if it’s fact.
Finding someone these days who will do a very nice upholstery job, paying attention to detail and using correct materials, is very, very, difficult…..
Should read “hides”” and not “”hoses”” on leather discussion….”
