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Well, Bob, another friend of mine recently went on a rant about how engineers are messing up the world by designing unnecessary and silly things, just to do something different, so that would seem to rule out any common sense I’d bring to this discussion.

I notice a support bar going across what appears to be the inside of the frame, with half moon cut outs, directly in front of, and supporting, the gas tank.

If one went to the outermost cut out, and ran a ratchet strap from that to the axle tube, couldn’t you pull the frame/body down a few inches?

The only concern would be using too big a strap, then you might lift the axle off the ground instead of lowering the body. See, I had to put in a silly engineering comment…..

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Greg, I agree with you that diesel is a great option for towing, and of course the torque is as you say, at much lower rpms than for a gasoline engine.

For personal reasons, I’ll stick with the gasoline engine, there are certain aspects of running a diesel that don’t appeal to me, my loss I’m sure, but I’m too old now to change my mind! (or rather, I’m old enough now that I don’t HAVE to change my mind!)

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One reason I like the earlier (2006 and back) Suburbans is the increased towing capacity with the 8.1 engine, which was not available after 2006. My 2001 3/4 ton Suburban, 8.1 engine, can tow 12,000 pounds, 340 HP @ 4300 rpm, 455 ft-lb torque @ 4200 rpm (the torque makes all the difference, the old saying is you buy horsepower, you drive torque).

For comparison, a 2013 3/4 ton with the 6.0 (366 cubic inch) engine has 352 HP @ 5400 rpm (note how they played with RPM to get a slightly higher HP) but only 382 ft-lbs torque @ 4200 rpm.

I mention the 2013, because it was about that time I was looking to upgrade my older 454 Suburban. A salesman at the local dealer kept telling me that the 6.0 would pull as well as the big engine. I told him if that was the case, I’d buy a new one, but there’d be a test. Went home and loaded my ’38 Packard (about 5500 pounds) in my enclosed trailer, went back, and we drove it. We then hooked the trailer to the new 6.0 truck, and there was no comparison, the 454 was effortless while the 6.0 was noticeably working. He admitted he could tell a big difference.

The 6.0 is fine for a lot of towing, and it does get better gas mileage, but I spent the time to find a 2001 3/4 ton Suburban with the 8.1 and loaded, with only 36,000 miles a few years back, and I’ve been happy ever since.

I think it also depends where you’ll do most of your towing. Here (Virginia), we have rolling hills and you need the torque for easy towing. When I lived in Louisiana, and did mostly Southern touring (read flatlands!), I had a tow vehicle with a 350 that did just fine. When I brought it north, I was embarrassed on the hills!

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I see now, on PreWarCar, that this phaeton has sold…..

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trunk outside….the stock luggage rack extends behind the regular bumper, so there’s an accessory bumper that wraps much further out and around the trunk…I didn’t want to do that, so made new brackets for the trunk rack that would pull it closer to the body, and within the regular bumper, just like the look a lot better…

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trunk

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door panel

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front seat picture

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back seat picture

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Greg, the interior is partially wrong in the car. The doors appear to have the correct pattern, but the seats should not be pleated. The Model 43 phaeton had smooth seats, with a center piping on the rear seat backrest and cushion. The second from rear top bow appears to be slightly elevated, which can only happen if the rear bow is too far forward. I don’t see a pure side shot with the top up, to see rear bow position, the rear curtain should be very close to vertical. The trunk on the car is incorrect, from what I understand, although I guess those are aftermarket. I’ve been told the all metal trunk on mine is correct for that model Pierce, and if I remember Bob Dluhy has the same trunk on his 43 phaeton as mine. The engine in this model is the only Pierce 8 with a timing gear, not chain, is what I’ve been told, wonder if the noise could be that, perhaps worn gears? As you say, hard to diagnose long distance.

I met my Pierce in 1965, was able to buy it in 1984, and have enjoyed it ever since….classic lines in a great looking and driving car…go for it!!

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Thanks for update, still looks like a nice car! Sure do like mine!

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Karl and Ralph, those are two good explanations for the low price. Unfortunately, shill bidding is legal for most auctions, as one guy said, he got tired of bidding against the Coke machine in the corner of the room. The 1913 “feels” right, and as Anthony so well explains, think it was well worth the money, although surely out of my ballpark (I’m still in a sandlot and these guys are in Wrigley Field)…

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I would agree that the 1919 appears to have sold under market, unless, as David alludes to, there’s a back story to the car that devalues it. Even if, for example, the car had been chopped up and the body was all new, it still is a beautiful car and seemingly well worth the money.

The 1913 is a very pretty car, and what a tour car for early events, and for an older restoration that money seems right, though I’m no expert on values by any means.

Hope the new owners either are in, or join, the PAS!

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Ideally, engine temperature should be 180 to 190, but on a summer day 195 to 200 wouldn’t be a major cause for concern. Radiator temperature should be around that on inlet tank, and obviously lower on discharge from radiator. The temperature differential is dependent on ambient temperature, condition of radiator, and other factors.

An exhaust manifold can be anywhere from 400 to 900 degrees, depending on load, rpm, speed, ambient air, and so forth.

I’m no expert, but this is my experience.

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That’s a neat story, Ed! Or, at least I assume it was neat…..

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As a follow up, I now see that the Model B phaeton I first asked about is for sale by Hyman, for somewhat more than paid at auction.

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When I restored my second Pierce, a ’35 coupe, I sent the engine ( to Lester’s shop in Florida. He’d done a ’34 for me and I was really pleased. I remember the conversation on the second engine, he asked me what I was going to do with the car, light tours and shows, or drive across country, because he could rebuild to either task. This was in the 1980’s, and I remember the pricing was $500 “per hole” for general use, $1500 per hole for cross country touring, which included a lot of modernizing inside the engine! I opted for the local option, and the engine was excellent….

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Here’s the correct link, interesting reading.

Seems the 1930 phaeton came out of Tom Lester’s collection.

After further research, found that many of these cars, including this and two other Pierce Arrow’s. were sold at Hershey Sotheby’s auction last year.

http://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/2421962/richard-roy-collection.txt

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Oh my, that’s one handsome car. Is it moving to the US?

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Note that the bottom row is called “Hot Rod Cloth”!! I don’t know, though, that purple might look good on my phaeton!

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