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I’m no expert on this topic, but a car radio that sounds great by itself can be interfered with by the car running (coil and spark), so investigate what needs to be done to make the engine running “quiet”” to the radio reception.”

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Neat! It’s interesting that some survived, and found their way to Pierce collectors. Hope you’re doing well, Walt, haven’t talked to you in a while! Seeing some of the P-A tool drawings would be cool!

I have a Pierce Arrow Mechanical Club pin, which Ed Minnie told me was a fairly unusual item. A friend of mine was at a small auction in Ohio, and saw it in a cigar box of stuff. Another bidder bought the box, he walked over and asked if he’d take a dollar for the pin, and the high bidder did so. My friend then gave it to me as a gift. Just funny how stuff finds a home!

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Brooks, I guess it does raise the question of the time frame, although it’s hard for me to think that the Army Air Force would use the PAMCC corporate name….but thanks for additional information, the more history the better!

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Thanks Jeff! Yes, that’s what I have, have never seen one before in many years of Pierce memorabilia collecting. Thanks for letting us know there’s another one! Here’s a picture of mine, plus a “regular”” employee ID holder that came with it….”

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I’ve now had it verified that this object dates to the period Peter mentions, 1917-19, when Pierce was, indeed, preparing to manufacture airplane engines.

If anyone else has any physical item in their collection relating to the Aircraft Division, please let me know, either here or by email. I almost think the object I have is one of a kind, that somehow survived the years and then found it’s way to my grubby hands, but that’s so rarely the case.

Meanwhile, look for an update in a future issue of the Arrow. thanks dc

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Is that a Studebaker head on the engine, or is that what heads looked like in 1930?

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OK, let’s review the cars based on wheel treatment.

360001, Vesley/Hudson car, had full wheel covers (discs), apparently the only known existing Silver Arrow to carry those. Tom Derro’s car has full covers. Thus, I’m thinking 360001 is Tom’s car, and still resides in his garage, as Ed mentioned.

360002, Stieff car, had full wheel covers, but it’s assumed lost.

360003, not applicable

360004, Worden car, unknown

360005, Sotheby Auction car, shown originally with discs, shown with painted wire wheels when owned by Peck/Clark, but now has chrome wire wheels

360006, not applicable

360007, San Francisco Academy of Art, painted red wire wheels

So my opinion now, based on Mr. Lyons astute observation to simplify, and Ed’s source saying the Derro car is still in TD’s garage, that Derro’s name should NOT be associated with 360007.

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Yes, Bob, your Pierce engine is holding up my Packard engine, so get him moving on it!

You’ve only had yours at that shop for 3 years…he had one engine of mine for 7 years, so you’ve got some catching up to do!

I know nothing about Pierce timing chains, as I own a Model 43 that was apparently the ONLY eight cylinder car with an engine with timing gears, no chain!

For the record, my Packard engine (with hairline cracks between valve seats) has been at his shop almost 4 years, with him working on a fix, and I’m just about ready to pull it and send it to a block repair facility

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Great information, Peter, thanks.

It would seem to explain all, except that:

-Tom Derro listed his car in the roster as 360007 at one point

-the interior in the car Tom Derro showed appears to be different than that interior in 360007 when it went through the B/J auction

-Ed has it on good authority that a Silver Arrow still resides in Tom Derro’s garage

I love a good mystery! It would seem that the only “positive” thing about a missing car is that 360002 had the rear body hacked off by John Grimage so he could haul firewood, possibly in the late 40’s or early 50’s in Baltimore, and there’s no record of that car being rebuilt or rebodied, so it probably ended up in a junk yard and was destroyed.

360004 is the most intriguing of the group, as it seems to have disappeared as a whole, and with the world as such a big place, it could very well be in a garage somewhere, with my guess being overseas….I think a person or family would be hard pressed to hide such a high profile car in the United States…

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These cars have great lines. Sitting outside, even under a tarp and in dry California, is never kind to a car…

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Ed, no rush…from the interior color, it would appear that the Derro car was NOT the one sold at the B/J auction.

The question now would be what serial number is Derro’s car, as the serial number of the one sold at the B/J auction was documented in auction literature as 360007. There is a reference at some point that the Derro car is “number 1”, and if so maybe it’s 360001?

Thanks and safe travels, Ed…..

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I believe you, Ed, just trying to figure out which car is which, no valid reason for doing so other than curiosity!

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Here’s a picture of the front seat of the car that was auctioned by Barrett Jackson and now lives in San Francisco. Is this the Derro car, I do notice pointed flap on the door panel…..?

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There was documentation that Tom Derro’s car was/is 360007, the car that was auctioned by BJ and now resides in San Francisco.

Are you saying that the Derro car is NOT 360007? If so, what number is it?

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OK, so to summarize, attached is the list as I see it now. I’m sure that a better, more complete, list exists, but I’m doing this for my entertainment! It would seem that 360005 and 360007 are well known and documented cars, 360001 still exists, and 360002 and 36004 are “missing or assumed destroyed””.

Any comments or corrections welcome!”

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Brooks…no, I’m surely not advocating closing further discussion! It just seems odd that the history of at least two of the cars is murky, two are well documented, and the third seems to be somewhere in between.

I really don’t think the Kouri car started out as a Silver Arrow, I think it was an engine that got put into a custom car. Just common sense seems to preclude that premise, why take a custom car, one of five, and make another, ummmm, uglier, custom out of it? I’ve stood next to the Kouri car when it was at Harrah’s, and it has no feel of Pierce, sans the engine.

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I think it’s interesting that Model T was made in the numbers of 15 million, Model T guys can pinpoint a car’s manufacture almost to the hour, and we can’t identify 5 very special cars in a definite manner!

Thanks to all who’ve posted, very interesting.

My personal opinion is the Kouri roadster is in no way a Pierce Arrow, but a full custom car that happens to use a Pierce engine. My other opinion is that it’s unfortunate looking, but I’ll keep that opinion to myself!

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Thanks, Peter, I searched a little but didn’t run across that gem….once I get the item I’ll give my opinion of it and post a picture, it looks much more modern than the late teens, but again, want to hold it in my grubby hand before passing further judgement. I’m still not convinced it’s very old, but it’s just interesting to me that it’s the first object I’ve ever seen that joins the PAMCC and aviation.

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Aha, could very well be….

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Happy Thanksgiving to all, we all have a lot for which to be thankful..

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