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Hello Ed,

Yes, I know norman, but his telephone number is not in the Roster,.

However his brother Paul lives in NYC and his number is 212-929-1550.

Best of luck hunting down Norman.

BTW, Norman always had nice P-A cars.

Best regards,

Peter

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Good afternoon Gentlemen,

In response to this thread, I visited my 1925 Series 80, 7-Passenger DeLuxe Sedan and while standing on the running boards I opened each of the four doors.

Lo and behold, on the flat top of each door, was the Code: H 238.

The “H” appeared to be scribed and the 238 was stamped / pressed.

Just more fodder for the discussion.

There are no stamped plates on my Series 80 car as shown in Edward Leichliter’s photo.

Perhaps the HH & KK codes on the doors refer to wood shop part numbers designating the car for which the wooden door part was created.

It would be interesting to see if such codes exist on other enclosed cars in the 1920s era.

BTW, Ed, where does your HH stamped piece reside on your car? Is it on the doors or engine bay or where?

Cheers,

Peter

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Ed,

Bernie’s list shows two (2) 1928 HH Code cars (HH-270/271 & HH-226?), one being and 36-EDL and the other a 36-7-Passenger Sedan. On one of these cars the numbers are stamped on the TOP of the doors – 270 on the left doors and 271 on the right doors.

He also shows two (2) 1927 KK-numbered cars and four (4) 1928 KK-numbered cars, all of which are 36-EDL cars.

Perhaps, there are others, but they are just not reported, as with yours Ed.

It is time to start checking the tops of doors!

I will do that later today.

Peter

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Online research reveals that there was trade magazine hubbub from 1917 through 1919 about PAMCC manufacturing aircraft engines.

Apparently the PAMCC entered in to an agreement to manufacture Hispano-Suiza aircraft engines.

I assume that all of this was to support the war effort for WWI.

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They also used Pierce-Arrow engines in rum-runners (boats) because they were so powerful and quiet.

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Brooks,

According to Bernie’s files, the Kouri Roadster was never a Silver Arrow, but apparently a car constructed with one of the seven (7) Silver Arrow serial numbered engines.

I find no listing for a “Stiffel” car but there is a Steiff car – 2575031 / 360002.

There is also no mention of Silver Arrow cars going to or coming from Mexico.

M. C. Hudson, owner of Crazy Water Company, Mineral Wells, Texas is the closest owner that I see to Mexico.

His car was the 360001 engine – no body number listed.

It is a puzzle, eh?

Peter

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Again, according to Bernie’s listings, there is a history recorded for engines numbered: 360001, 360002, 360003, 360005, 360006 & 360007.

There is no listing for an engine numbered 360004, but there is reference to a Silver-Arrow without body number and engine number that was purchased by (Dr. Edward C. Worden, a Chemist known for cellulose research. Photo in Brierley book “Auburn, Reo….” shows photo of owner standing with the Silver Arrow in mid-’33. Which car this is, is not known). (Bernie’s comments in parentheses.)

The Dr. Worden car / engine may be the 360004 engine car, but that is a DK.

Bernie also lists that there were five (5) 12-cylinder Silver-Arrow engines and two (2) Experimental engines, but they all have the 360001 through 360007 numbers with 30007 being in a Silver-Arrow.

So, the 360003 (Kouri) and 360006 (Jenkins) engines, although listed as Experimental, appear in the middle to near end of the production of those engines.

The Kouri Roadster is / was owned by a James R. Diefenthal of New Orleans, and pics of the car sure look like it could have been built for a New Orleans guy, as it is a pretty wild ride. It would have garnered a good deal of attention screaming through the bayous of Louisiana.

Also note that all of the other 1933 12-cylinder car engines are either 335XXX or 355XXX.

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Bernie’s listings of the Silver Arrow cars shows that the Tom Derro car was engine #360007, with a body #2575018. This car was also owned by Paul Schnabel, Harrah, the Imperial Palace and most recently by Richie Clyne.

Tom Derro may have said that it was the #1 car because that car has the lowest body number (missing on one other S-A) even if the engine number is not the lowest.

The Vesley car was engine# 360001, but the body # is missing from the list.

Regarding the Kouri Roadster (S-A engine #360003), Bernie writes: This car apparently built on a previous model lengthened chassis, using a 1933 engine numbered in the “experimental” series. Enamel plaque on front light bar says “Silver Arrow Custom body by David B. Kouri, Detroit, MI June 18, 1933″

Note parentheses in lines above – all of that is on the enamel plaque.

Engine #360006 was used in the Ab Jenkins Roadster for the 1933 speed record at Bonneville.

Five S-A cars, seven S-A engines.

I hope that this is helpful.

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Ed,

That is definitely an “HH.””

Was your P-A constructed by a Coach Builder rather than the PAMCC?

Do you know the history of the vehicle?

Are there other body or engine numbers / markings?

Interesting.

Peter”

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Good afternoon Gents,

2001 was before my time in the PAS and on the Board, so I am in the dark on Paul Morris’ reference.

Bob Sands, Tony Z. and I are charged by PAS Pres., Rich Lange to bring suggestions relating to dash plaques to the Winter Board Meeting.

I am sure that there will be interesting discussion on the matter.

I am curious the 2001 rationale for dropping the Weis winner as the featured image on the Annual Meet plaque.

Peter

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How about a photo?

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Richard,

The simple answer to your question is that the PAMCC had screwy numbering systems all along the production of most models.

Why? DK!

Peter

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BTW, 8,300-lbs is about the weight of a BIG Pierce-Arrow car loaded on to a 4,000-lb trailer.

My Series 80 (130-in-wheelbase) 7-passenger DeLuxe Sedan weights in just shy of 4K-lbs, so you guys with the Big Boy Pierce cars (140-in + WB) and SUV tow vehicles need to pay attention to the weight.

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You need a Class IV or V hitch, and then check on the towing capacity of your vehicle.

A 2015 Cadillac Escalade is rated to tow 8,300-lbs GTW in its Top Configuration, which seems to be the same as a Yukon / Tahoe / Suburban.

My 2004 Ford F-250 SuperCab, long bed, Diesel is rated at 12,500-lb GTW and the 2015 Ford F-250 in a similar configuration is rated at 14,000-lb GTW.

You are getting a lot of info, eh, Rick!

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Tony,

I think that this is quite correct that we should have plaques that reflect the quality of Pierce-Arrow.

Peter

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Do what you like and don’t sweat it.

No matter how much you worry about it, the end product will be excellent.

Matching colors across different materials is hugely difficult, and that is why people use contrasting colors rather than matching colors.

Keep it simple and contrast.

Even purple and green are a wonderful combo, given the selected shades of each.

Have fun with it and stop worrying.

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George,

Bob Jacobsen is in charge of the 2106 Palo Alto, California, Winter Meet / Board Meeting.

It runs from 25 through 28 February and should include tours to a number of car collections, etc.

I am sure that Bob is working away on the details and will provide them soon.

Peter

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Rick,

If the porcelain coating is very expensive, you may wish to consider a process called Jet-Hot Coating (Jet-Hot.com).

I did my exhaust header a few years back and it remains fine.

The cost was reasonable and you can read about the process and outcomes online.

Also, the color offerings are wide, so black will not be a problem.

Just FYI.

Peter

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Paul,

Thanks for your continued excellent effort in the creation, evolution and maintenance of our top-shelf website.

Best regards,

Peter

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Hey Liz,

Thanks for putting together the dinner.

It was a great gathering.

Peter

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