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What made you believe the Emperor owned a Pierce-Arrow?

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Very touching about Eli. The gin must have gotten to him.

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Eric,

How did you rig the brakes without the power brake unit behind the

transmission? Different axles, juice brakes? Any stock parts lying around?

Tony

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There seems to be enough interest in ’32 Pierce-Arrow Model 54 convertible

coupes on this discussion board that renewing production might be in order.

The bodies could be built in one of those slick Italian outfits and the

rest of the car can get resurrected in the shop that just turned out a

new Tucker car that you can’t tell from the originals.

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Does anybody know how many were made and how many are left?

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William,

The only scary part of going 70+ in an early Pierce is the stopping

ability. A well sorted one is capable of steering out of trouble and

doing some remarkable cornering thanks to stock friction shocks. My

mentor, Roland Zillmer modified his 1911 Hudson and drove it from

New York to San Francisco at 65MPH. His only problems were losing a wheel

lock ring at speed and grinding a valve beside the road. An overdrive and

’55 Chev. juice brakes helped performance. I have ridden at 70+ in a 1909

48HP. It was a lot less scary than a ride I took around Watkins Glen in

a 1936 P.A. V12 with a driver that was foaming at the mouth. At any rate,

I can make you wet your pants at 30MPH in my 1904 Olds, while 70MPH in a

big early P.A. is a “walk in the park”.

I was in attendance on the tour that had the bad accident. The person injured

was used to driving a 2 cylinder REO. He wrecked in a 1914 Pope-Hartford that

was loaned to him. A Dr. friend of mine was right behind and treated the

injured immediately. Some were life flighted out.

I don’t recommend driving your old car in an unsafe manner. I relate these

observations to clear up misconceptions about early cars being slow and

boring. After all, in 1907 Apperson advertised that their Speed car would

be guaranteed to do 75MPH. A race between Sacramento and LA in 1910,

averaged over 50MPH on dirt roads and some of the race occurred at night.

Always keep too much stopping space ahead of you, be considerate of modern

drivers, drive like you have no brakes, and leave all the alcohol in the

gas you buy at the pump. You’ll have a great day in a P.A.

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William,

Pierce-Arrow must have had a savant chained to a room engineering gear

ratios, for I have never met an early P-A trans or rear end that could be

improved on. My 36HP weighs only 3800 and has a 4 speed. A competing

Packard had a 3 speed trans axle and must have weighed 4500. Mine has a

396 six versus Packard’s 432 four.

I attended the 75th Anniversary Horseless Carriage Club Tour in Colorado.

Three Days before, a forest fire had wiped out hundreds of dwellings and

the Pioneer Village where we were to have a lunch stop. Suddenly attendance

went down from 300 cars to 100 and we felt badly that we were taking housing

away from people who had lost their homes. In the parking lot a 1906

Locomobile was running so badly that I was afraid that it wouldn’t make it

to its trailer. That car made it to the top of Pikes Peak. Fresh paving and

guard rails did not lessen my fears in the modern car I was in. The new

railings had multiple scrape marks already.

On early car gatherings people always want to know which cars are the

fastest. I tell them that the Model T Fords are the fastest and the slowest

cars here today. My mentor, Roland Zillmer, had an exceptional’15 T Touring.

He had no trailer and would drive it to tours. He had a lead foot and a

machine shop. On one tour he raced a 1914 Isotta Fraschini, a huge 4 cylinder

overhead cam engined car. Mrs. Zillmer was beating him with her purse to

slow him down as he lead the Isotta.

Mr. Zillmer had several Pierces and sold me my ’12. He owned Tyrone Power’s

and one purchase, he had to secure the seller a dual valve White (’17?)

before he would receive the Pierce.

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Greg,

You’re very persuasive. My ’12 was restored in 1949 and still has the

original bearings except the rear main, in it. When I purchased it in 1973

I drove it home in 7 1/2 hours, crossing the San Francisco Bay Bridge and

using the freeway. It was 106 degrees that day and I cruised at 55MPH. About

62MPH is top speed. A 1912 48 HP should make 72MPH and a 66HP should see 75-

80 MPH. When I made it home to my mile high home, I was so excited I wanted

to drive it some more. It has to be noted that at that time the freeways were

very lightly used and traffic was slower.

On the other hand, the Marmon Wasp, the first racer to use a rear view mirror

, was 477 cubic inches, had factory upgrades though it used the same blocks

as My Marmon in my garage.It had to hit mid to high’90’s to accomplish a74MPH

average with pit stop. Ray Harroun, an Arab engineer for Marmon, drove a pre-

planned race against faster cars. Light weight and the positioning of that

weight required only one pit stop. Only one tire didn’t finish 500 miles of

punishment.

When I was blinded by youth, my Pierce would pass 48HP cars on grades during

tours. I got by a Winton, Locomobiles, a 60HP Kissel, a sorry 48HP Pierce, a

’14 Velie, and a Model AA Stevens Duryea. I got disgraced by a 1909 Packard

30 Runabout driven by a priest who’s family owned most of Kern County oil

property. A K-670 Thomas Flyer did a good impression of a rocket ship until

his tire came off. That didn’t count because we were on flat ground.

I’m retired from doing mindless behaviors with my artifacts so I’ll have

to decline your racing assistance. LOKI is usually low key, so is always

welcome in my car.

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Thanks Michael, for bringing this to our attention. I know that value is

determined when a buyer and seller have a meeting of the minds and that

restoring a car like this would leave a serious dent in ones wallet. Why

can’t a fine, rare, great performing car shake more bucks out of deep

Society bank accounts than what this car has previously inspired? If it was

a convertible of another classic make (Lincoln excluded) that was as rare,

it would do much better. In the future, if properly restored, if there is

any justice, you would think that it would be highly valued( like a mediocre

painting).

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Greg,

You’re the closest thing to a mechanical “faith healer” the Society has

(not intended to diminish the reputations of other mechanical geniuses

the Society possesses). You have brought back from the dead, many of my

rotting, junkyard wannabees. They are proud once again. As for your kind

offer, this time I want to push my car over the finish line by myself(Dr’s.

orders).

PS I could use Loki(sp) the wonder dog, though.

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California wasps love the old cars so much that they build their hives out

of paper. This biodegradable material they use has put them in high regard

with our esteemed eco types which flourish in our climate. As for the insect,

they’re so popular that Hudson named a model after them. Preceding that, a

whole car made in Bennington, Vermont in 1920 was brought out. A four

cylinder Wisconsin motor that generated 72HP with a 136″ wheelbase cost

$5,000. Karl Martin was 32 when he started the Wasp and had cut his teeth

by designing the Roamer and Deering Magnetic and was working on the

Kenworthy. He built 14 of the 4’s and brought out a 144″ wheelbase which had

a 70HP six. Douglas Fairbanks bought a Wasp for his new bride, Mary Pickford.

Karl knew how dangerous that Wasps could bee, so he included a Saint

Christopher Medal on the engine turned dash of every car he built. Some were

offered for $10,000.

I obtained this info from Beverly Rae Kime’s monumental book on car

history. Nothing like charging the car brain cells by opening this book and

reading comprehensive history about 4,000 auto makes. She left us too soon,

and doesn’t get the credit she deserves.

Oops…how could I have forgotten the Marmon Wasp, which stung a Lozier to

win the first Indianapolis 500 in 1911 averaging 74MPH. Try that in your

Pierce.

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Hi Richard,

I get all the pictures except the last one. Was a window added to a body

panel to check the condition of the seat springs from time to time? I

appreciate following your progress on bringing back to life a rare and

important part of our country’s contribution to progress. For better or

worse, our involvement with these artifacts is an extension of ourselves

and our sacrifices, to provide a touchstone for future generations.

Hopefully they will get a glimpse of what “primitive man” could accomplish

with a pile of leather, metal, rubber, and wood. A little imagination and

passion liberally was added.

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Bill,

When storing your car, be sure to have the clutch depressed so that the

leather lining is not making contact with the flywheel. The brass era

Pierces have a detent in the shift mechanism that would free the leather

from contact when stored in neutral. Even my lowly 1910 Mitchell disengages

the clutch for storage when the emergency brake lever is engaged. Other

cone clutch cars require a stick to be fashioned between a depressed clutch

pedal and a strong surface directly behind it(usually beneath the seat).

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Top cylinder lubrication is not an option for early cars. Much of this was

accomplished in the early days by loose initial clearances and a lack of air

filters. If you’ve ever seen the level of exhaust fumes at the starting line

of an early race you see my point. By around 1920 Marvel Mystery Oil was

introduced to keep upper cylinders clean and healthy. Mid ’20’s came and so

did higher compression and a greater need for MMO. Many auto supplies my way

carry Marvel Mystery Oil in gallon containers. My cars are addicted and get

grouchy when they can’t get theirs.

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Bill,

It’s the cars that slip the bonds of age…that become ageless. It’s us that

pursue the hobby, the longer we belong, that gather the patina.

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Bill,

Some chemicals used, caused cracks in the brass according to the article.

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The idea is to put the wear on the clutch brake material, not the metal on the

clutch. Brake material may be too harsh. My experience with my ’12 is in line

with Mr. Scorah’s. It almost has the consistency of linoleum. Be nice to your

drive train and your nerves and keep the clutch brake well adjusted. Don’t

reline them with a hard surface material, not too soft either.

It interests me that the Series 31-51 used a woven clutch lining. I have two

brass Marmons that have a woven cone clutch lining that has metal woven into

it. I believe the factory installed them, as they are alike. They don’t run

in oil and shift beautifully.

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Bill,

I had trouble cold starting my early Pierce. I switched to premium and my

troubles went away. I know that seems contrary to logic, but it works for me.

It saved my cranking arm and P-A didn’t include a compression release.

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The Horseless Carriage Gazette ran an article on brass polish. I can’t

recall which issue. I believe they had a list of 20 – 30 brands. Some

contained chemicals that would age the brass, so there is more than an

easy shine to be concerned about. My favorite was an aluminum polish

called Aluminol. I haven’t been able to find it for years, make that decades.

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1925 series 33.

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