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Robin Onsoien has a 36 HP in his shop.He does work for others,has

restored over 50 cars,some shown at Pebble Beach.He is one of the finest

guys I’ve met in the hobby.He may help you copy his manifold.Phone

#805 928 8009

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Thanks for sharing the pictures of that sexy looking P.A..You

don’t waste any time.The recognition of Dave Murray is over due.

He is selfless in his promotion of roadable P.A. iron.He’s given me the

courage to resurrect some 5,000 lb. ghosts with fender headlamps that

prefer to be at rest.Without him and the other parts suppliers,I would

have been forced to increase my supply of Model A’s and learn how to

understand their repair manual.

Any P.A. on the road is a memorable event.A Rip Van Winkle Pierce of

62 years sleep should have a coming out party!

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You may pick a “tasteful” color that was available in 1911.The Editor

of The HCCA Gazette(John C. Meyer III)produced an article showing what

paint companies offered.The real challenge is in duplicating the correct

pin striping.

What we know is that you could order any color.That cars were sold

through showrooms with colors picked by the factory.Factory photos reveal

many different offerings(wish they were color photos).The 1911 36UU

(1,000 built)was an extension of the 1910 36UU (600 built).A good guess

would be that the colors would be similar.Many popular cars of this age

were sold out early in the model run(often at car shows)and the factory

was lucky if it could co-ordinate suppliers,foundaries,shippers and labor

to meet the demand in a timely manner.One of the hang-ups was the paint

job that required over ten hand applied coats of carriage type paint.Each

coat had to dry and be sanded and one “clear coat” on top.It took over a

month to paint one car(and the space tied up while the process happened).

These paint jobs were good for up to 2 years before replacement was

needed.

I would suggest you contact various libraries for copies of P.A. ads

(some were color)and P.A. factory pictures(they were not color but are

clear enough to make out the pin striping).Existing car owners could be

a big help here.

Good Luck!

Tony

the

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They’re as hard to find as an honest politician(P.A.Society members

excluded).Try to find somebody to manufacture one for you.Coker has

somebody making new rims.I will try to find more sources.Meanwhile secure a good line of credit.They may have to be machined out of a solid

billet.There was a guy in So. Cal making the best wheels at $15K to $25K

for 5 wheels 8 to 10 years ago.I think he’s retired.

My ’12 is an early one.It has non-demountable rims.I believe it has

Marsh rims and they have been on the car since new.I would like to know

more about P.A.’s use of rims in the early days.

Tony

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http://WWW.autocolorlibrary.com has Ditz-Lac original files and paint info on

all the late P.A.s.They also claim to be able to supply correctly

colored paint.By inserting make and date,the site provides the names of

the stock colors available.

The ’34 “8”s came in 2 green colors(plus Linden Green on the wheels of

the Everglades Green),Everglades Green and Thessalon Green.The chart

reveals what color was employed on the fenders,wheels,upper and lower

body.The 7 day a week number is 858 909 2110.

Good luck,you’ve got a rare car!

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Looking at our Roster,’34 836A’s engine numbers all have 240,xxx and

no n with 3 numbers after it

840’s start with 305,xxx and no n with 3 numbers after it(with the

exception of 2 other listed cars).

I put the x’s to illustrate numbers,they are not actually part of

the engine numbers.I used the 2005 edition of the Roster.

I looked 1934 to 1938 and could find no 707 number sequence.P.A.

put straight 8 engines in busses,trucks,railroad motor cars(?),etc.

Also,Seagraves(fire trucks)used a close proximity of one.

Could this engine be from other than an automobile?

[Author nameAuthor names are only available to PAS members.]

Oivind,

What year and make of car is in the last picture you sent?I see

you use rope for more than just tire chains.

Tony

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Oivind,

How does the Pierce handle in the snow compared to your modern car?

[Author nameAuthor names are only available to PAS members.]

At one time,antique cars were just junk and were worth little or

nothing.A few very weird(visionary?)folks stepped up to the plate and

saved them from destruction.As time passed,people became aware that

the neighbor had been traded a new car for their 1906 Fartmobile.With

this increase of value came the possibility of dumping some hard earned

cash to restore the jalopy.

We as hobbiests and collectors are saviors.Our efforts encouraged the

general population to hold on to obsolete cars,rather than junk them.

We are now challenged by a group who take victims from this dwindling

pool of survivors.They compete in the market place and raise prices

beyond what we can justify.They remove demand for services and

suppliers that restoration(this word has even been bastardized)needs.

Hot rod these two?The cost of bringing them back in a hot rod shop

would curl your toes!Some less cost than restoration,but not that much.

I believe the coupe is viable at a “reasonable” price.I would rather

see the sedan give up its vital organs so that another Pierce could

live.This may be an economic path for the next owner.If it is hot

rodded,there isn’t even a 2% chance it will return to original.

That being said,the Bad Boy in me likes “some” customs and rods.Who

cares if future generations believe Grandma and Grandpa motored to the

general store for staple goods in a rat-rod with a skull on the shift

column?

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Those are both 1936 1601 “8” cylinder numbers.The larger serial

number indicates a 144″ wheelbase.The coupe is the 226th car built

out of 403 on the 139″ chassis.The sedan(or limo.)was the 138th out

of 207 on the longer wheelbase.

This info.from The Serial Number Book For U.S. Cars 1900-1975,

page 208.

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4,100-4,550 lbs. according to Mark Ralston’s Pierce-Arrow pg.232.

The differences must be due to the different bodies offered?

Tony Costa

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I’m selling turbocharger kits,exhaust headers,and flame decals for

Pierce-Arrows.If the factory can race them at Bonneville Flats,why

shouldn’t we have some fun with the tuner crowd at the stop lights(just

kidding).

[Author nameAuthor names are only available to PAS members.]

I am a purist.This can get you relagated,castigated and negated by the free thinkers in cardom.But you can’t have it both ways.I see my role as being the good shepherd of old cars.Ushering them forth to a new generation.It’s a romantic pursuit(in a very un-romantic age).I have no

control what the next generation will do to the cars.

Hot rodders are about themselves.It is ego driven.Yes,often their cars

are exciting to drive.They are justifiably proud of their craftmanship.

Many are a beauty to behold.Each example can lead to the demise of a historical piece of Americana.When I see a rod,I think of it as the living dead,a morphodite.And that grinding sound you hear is another one biting the dust.Rodders are a prolific bunch.Just check Ebay Motors.It’s getting harder to find a stock car.

Old cars can be as reliable as hot rods if they are set up right.Our problem is that they don’t get used regularly.

Hot rodders are seeking out rare cars.This competition increases the cost to save a car(from zombie-hood).

Remember to love the sinner and hate the sins.Alot of rodders are great guys(a model T orig. type speedster and 1934 Hupp AeroDynamic 421J ,hot

rods,followed me home).I do pennance by doting on my Pierce-Arrows.

Tony Costa

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Paul,

I got out my 2010 Roster and Vehicle Register and it didn’t have a

section on reported cars with numbers that fall outside factory s/n

ranges.Where did you obtain this info?My friend will be blasting his

timing cover today.The first number is faint and he can’t read it yet.

The numbers he obtained would fit into those you gathered. Tony

[Author nameAuthor names are only available to PAS members.]

I believe you’re right,Leo.It’s a Suburban(?).He’s checking

the places that this message board has provided,for a proper serial

no.

I have something in common with you.I also own one of Roland

Zillmer’s early Pierces.He bought yours right after he sold me

mine.He was a mentor to me as I grew up 4 blocks away and went

through school with his son,Bruce.

Tony Costa

[Author nameAuthor names are only available to PAS members.]

Thanks Ralph,Paul and Ed.The owner does not belong.I will try to

recruit him.I told him that my ’12 has the serial number stamped

on various components(carb,driveshaft,mag.,etc.).He proceeded to

find this number on his flywheel and other parts.I agree that my

sources don’t include this number(though it’s close to other

early P.A. numbers)and that’s why I enlisted your help.He hasn’t

located an engine number yet.I will check the identification

guide.

Tony

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David,

It’s clear,that without Studebaker,Pierce-Arrow wouldn’t have had

the money to develope/produce the straight eight.Development must

have been collaborative as the end products had interchangeable

components(some)and yet were not the same.The P-A block was poured

in a South Bend foundary of harder material and the rest of the

manufacturing was in Buffalo to the highest of standards.

Studebaker went on to break scores of records with their straight

eight.Ab Jenkins drove to set some of the score of records

Studebaker set in 1929.

Hydraullic lifters first came out Nov. ’32 on 1933 models.I own

a 1934 P-A 836A with non-hydraullic lifters.This was done as a

cost-cutting maneuver to compete in a lower price bracket.You

could buy a Pierce for about the same price as a Chrysler

Airflow Custom Imperial(their mid sized offering)or a Buick

98C convertible phaeton(top of the line).Very good condition

price today is $70K for the Buick,$136K for the Chrysler(they

made 106 of them)and $66K for the Pierce(500 ’34s,300 ’35s

est.).

I don’t know about the drilled crankshaft,but my 1912 Marmon

32 has one.Also attempts at hydrallic lifters go back to the

earliest times of the twentieth century. Tony Costa

[Author nameAuthor names are only available to PAS members.]

Resident Pierce-Arrow Engineers:

What role can the shackle bearings play in shimmy?

Tony Costa

[Author nameAuthor names are only available to PAS members.]

It looks like a Welch parked next to the “66”” roadster(overhead

cam with a hemi-head).These pictures are keeping me up too late.

Tony Costa”

[Author nameAuthor names are only available to PAS members.]

Tony

I’ll take a set.The check will be put in the mail today.

Thanks,Tony Costa

[Author]

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