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So here’s my $.02 worth: According to my collection of old text books, both of these regulators are of the TIRREL type to control current in the field coils. These are the “vibrating” type where the contact is opened and closed very frequently to provide an “average” field voltage / current and thus control the armature voltage / current to the battery circuit. The full field current is provided when the contact on your regulator style is closed. When closed, it shorts around the resistor, greatly increasing field current and armature output. When the contact opens, the resistance is in the circuit, reducing the field current/magnetism available. The circuit shown on Pg 72 in the Pierce wiring guide book shows this regulator on the ground side of the field; the source of field voltage is the third brush.

The field resistance itself is very low; about 1 ohm in my generator after a fresh rewind. The residual magnetism and remaining small field current are enough to prevent motoring the generator while driving. In the Pierce version, this resistance is in the coil, as you have measured, and is removed from the circuit when the arm contact is closed onto the coil. The Packard version uses the external (wire wound) resister as the high resistance element in the circuit – which would require a very low resistance contact to apply full voltage to the field while shorting the resister out of the circuit, as you have measured.

Your test of the Pierce is correct for the coil resistance when the arm is lifted. On the Packard, the measurement would be across the wire wound resister, which should be about 2 ohms, matching about what you found on the Pierce.  If there is no voltage at all, suspect a broken wire in the resister. Having the bimetallic arm contact provide more voltage to the low resistance field is correct for either resister placement. Regards, Herb

 

 

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Randy, By design, Free-Wheeling prevents the car from backing up.  From the driver’s seat, take the engine as rotating in the POSITIVE direction.  Transmission input and output shafts turn in the same direction in all forward gears.  Without Free Wheeling, both transmission output shaft (T) and drive shaft (D) have the same positive rotational value (T = D).  In reverse, the transmission input and output shafts turn opposite to each other.

During normal driving, the transmission shafts remain locked together, so the engine can hold back the speed of then car. However, during Free-Wheeling, an “over-running clutch” allows the drive shaft to turn faster then the transmission output shaft. This over-running clutch effectively de-coupling transmission output shaft and drive shaft (T < D).  The transmission output and drive line are re-coupled when the engine increases the transmission shaft speed to match the drive shaft, allowing acceleration of the car. (T = D)

On the other hand, operating in reverse, the transmission output shaft rotates the opposite direction, providing negative rotation (-T). When the drive shaft stopped, it has zero rotation.  (D = 0), which still a larger positive value than the transmission output’s negative rotational speed. [D > (-T)]  Therefore, the transmission output shaft in reverse gear does turn, but that over-running clutch will not allow the car to back up.

I expect the function of the pin is to lock out the Free-Wheeling feature, locking the rotation of the transmission output shaft to the drive shaft and allowing negative rotational values for both transmission and drive shaft. Without a definite lock-out feature, Free-Wheeling may cause severe ‘white knuckle syndrome’ when going down steep hills.  Herb

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John,

The 1929 model I have uses a washer against the hub, with a castellated nut and cotter pin. The nut on my car is 1 inch diameter and 12 threads per inch (TPI). This is not a current standard thread count (UNC has  8 TPI and UNF has 14 TPI) however, it is an available size and configuration. The key used is a standard 1/4 inch square key; a length of 2 inches is plenty. The torque to use on the axle nut is “plenty”.

Several years ago I had a batch of replacement axle shafts made. These have the 8 tooth spline and were used on the 29, 30 & 31 models. I still have some available for $700 each, including shaft, washer, nut and freight.

Let me know how I can help.  Herb Tull

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Mike, David,

Mike, welcome to the world of Pierce Arrow Automobiles!

My 133 does have the Delco 668-E distributor. The points are opposite hand as they ride on opposite sides of the plate. In order to have a 4 lobe cam can produce 8 sparks per distributor shaft revolution,  a 45 degree angle between the parts is needed.  The points are opposite hand to achieve the proper cam angles; point sets from are NAPA CS779A on the left and CS779A on the right side.  The CS779A will fit without modification. The CS778A needs to have its wire contact tab removed to allow connecting to the car’s coil wire.  The points mounting plate on the right side is a floating / adjustable unit and needs to set the points to fire 45 degrees apart.

There are timing marks on the flywheel, but mine are not readable.  Another method of fining top dead center is to use a plastic drinking straw inserted into the spark plug hole and notice the direction reversible point, which is TDC.  This procedure is also good for finding the TDC of the next cylinder of the firing order – which uses the other set of points. I use an ohmmeter to determine the point where the points open.  Working on a bench to set up the distributor is far easier than in doing this work in the car. A protractor with a hole at the center point to fit the distributor shaft can be useful to find the 45 degree point. An older distributor machine (Sun or Allen) with a degree wheel is even better.

The rotor appears to be available from Straight-Eight.com. They feature Duesenberg parts, but some do interchange with Pierce.
Search with the Delco-Remy  part number: 37598  which is shown in the Pierce Parts Catalog for 1929 I have not needed to purchase a rotor, as my car already has a spare. John Cislak sells copies of the Parts Catalog, a very useful book, as most parts and assemblies are shown.

Download the Owners Manual from the Society’s Owner’s Manual Library. It is also a very valuable source of information on your car.

Looking forward to meeting you directly at a Society function in the future.  You can email me if you have more questions.  Herb Tull

 

 

 

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George, you are correct on both counts. Zinc is more active than aluminum and many parts of outboard motors are made of aluminum.  On the other hand, while zinc protects the aluminum heads and other aluminum parts in a cooling system, it does not really help with other metals in the engines of our cars.

After reviewing the Periodic Table, the Magnesium is indeed a more active metal than either iron or copper, so I agree with your friend that magnesium is better as it would help protect engine blocks and radiators (plus other copper alloys such as brass and bronze).

Two reasons I chose zinc: I remember back in the day that makers of mag wheels had a distinct fire hazards due to the magnesium being igniting from their machining processes and burning very hot. Secondly, zinc is more readily available in a form that could easily be made to fit into the radiator neck.

Now that the water pump and hoses are nearly sorted out, I am going to put in liquid anti-corrosion fluid when finished. Pump is OK, but the hose wall is too heavy for the correct clamps to seal properly. One last drain and refill to change out the hoses from pump discharge to the radiator should take care of it.

Thanks for asking about my posting – I should have checked my chemistry more closely. Apologies. Herb

 

 

 

 

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Anodes are an an old and interesting idea; at one time, they are an accessory sold at parts store. I still have one in my car while sorting out its water pump issues.  While not a replacement for an anti-corrosion fluid, but it is a pretty good temporary solution while you are tracking down cooling system problems.  Any two different metals connected by an electrolyte forms a battery; such as the old Lead/acid batteries, which lead and lead oxide, having different electrical potentials. Chemistry behind the sacrificial anode is to use a more active metal than anything else in the system. Any two different metal compounds connected by an electrolyte forms a battery; such as the old Lead-acid batteries, using lead and lead oxide, having different electrical potentials. The two common anode materials are zinc and magnesium. My strong preference is zinc, because magnesium burns if it gets too hot during fabrication.

The “normal” configuration of our cars is a cast iron engine and a copper radiator. Iron and Copper also form a battery with current flow between the metals when submerged in a conductive fluid. Unfortunately, iron is the more active and sacrifices itself, forming red iron oxide (hematite), minimizing oxidation in the radiator. The good news is that zinc is more active than both copper or iron, so the zinc oxidizes to protect the block and radiator. Some anodes are available to bolt into the block, but these require draining the cooling system for installation. My preference is to place the anode in the radiator’s top tank and electrically bond it to the radiator neck.

The anode I made is a section of 1/2 inch zinc rod about 1-1/2 inches long. This is small enough to fit  through the neck, turn and lay on the bottom of the upper tank, which is by far the most accessible point on the cooling system. Zinc is a soft metal, so I have a copper wire screwed to one end. The other end of the wire is stripped and pinched between the neck and radiator cap, completing the circuit. The wire is also good for pulling the anode out to see its condition; does it needs to be replaced or have excess oxidation removed?

Rods of pure zinc, 1/2 inch diameter are available. The site <span style=”text-decoration: underline;”>boatzincs.com</span> sells such as a rod 1/2 diameter x 36″ long for about $23. This much zinc is more than a lifetime supply by cutting off what you need at the time.  Still, it is a temporary solution if the cooling system is being drained frequently and must be submerged into the cooling water to function. Anodes are not a substitute for commercial anti-corrosion fluids, but they can be used together.    Herb

 

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Carl is on the right path. I would start with the temperature gun, to see if the issue is more in the engine or radiator. Take a reading at the radiator outlet, then the neck of the upper hose as it leaves the block. Compare the temperature rise across the block, then the temperature fall across the radiator. All the heat from the engine is dissapated by the radiator, but at what temperatures?

The inlet to the radiator will match the engine exit temperature. The fan and airflow will cool the water going through it. If the radiator exit to still hot after driving or is losing water out the overflow, the radiator becomes the first suspect.  Even at reduced flow from a collapsed hose, the radiator will reject as much heat it can and its exit temperature should be OK unless something has fouled the inside sutface. Idling or slow parades can cause a heat up as there is no wind across the radiator.

If the water leaving the radiator is cool, it is likely not that it is the source of the problem. If the water entering the engine is cool enough then something is either reducing flow thru the engine side or producing more heat. The temperature sensor is near the back of the head and basically measuring water outlet temperature, which makes it fairly accurate.

There are four major engine side low restriction sources: collapsed pump intake hose; low water level; thermostat not fully open; and rust/gunk clogging the water passages of the engine. If the hose has collapsed, you may hear rattling noises in the pump using a stethoscope (cavitation). Water level is easy to check. Thermostat in the engine exit and water jacket require opening and checking. Do the easy ones first.

The other set of problems comes from too much heat generated by the engine. Lean fuel mixture can cause this issue.  Good Luck. Herb

 

 

 

 

 

 

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David

The three speed transmission from 1930 is likely to be similar to the one in my ’29 and the parts book. If so, there are four things to check before doing something drastic to the shift forks.

(1) Operate the engine while on the jack stands is to see if the same noise is there in neutral; if so, one of the ball bearings may have a problem, allowing the teeth to not mesh on their proper radial line of contact.

(2) Check the ball bottom end of the gearshift rod, it engages the pockets on the shift rails. On an old Allis Chalmers tractor I had years ago, the shift lever engagement ball was quite worn out where it refused to fully engage with the shift rails; it required significant weld build-up to make it behave. (3) Are the shifter collars on the top of each rail worn out where the gear shift ball engages?

The other area is the shift rails to the rear of the shift tower where several potential problems can exist.  (4) There is a detent ball and spring unit on the outside of each rail and a locking piece between the rails. There are three detent pockets on each rail; holding engagement into the forward, neutral and rearward position of each rail. These ball and spring units need to move freely [Is a spring broken?] and the detent pockets on the rails need to be gunk-free so the ball can engage properly to hold the gears in their proper axial engagement positions. A lock piece appears to float between the two rails to keep them separated while shifting and the ball is outside the detent pocket. If the lock does not slide freely or the ball does not seat properly into each detent pocket, the shifting will be difficult.

If the car has been sitting for a long time, some condensation may have cause some corrosion and general gunk on these parts above the oil level. If the rail does not shift all the way to the end detent pocket, the gear teeth are only partially engaged axially, which would cause some noise in each one. This inspection is pretty easy once the tower is off and does not involve operating the engine.

All these checks can be made before removing the collars and bending them; if you do pull the shift forks out, pay close attention to the wear marks on each side which should be equal, indicating even load is applied evenly on the left and right side of the fork. If wear is even, then these parts are not deformed or bent.

Best Regards,  Herb Tull

 

 

 

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I know it isn’t totally kosher, but being the old engineer, I tend to over-think most everything. From my days doing industrial design and specifications, I require the contractor label each end of a wire with the same designation. Most switchgear comes from the factory with all their instrumentation and controls with the same gray wire – an nothing labeled.  Following my own demands, I used a wire stick-on number set, using the same number on each end of each wire. I even went as far as labeling the coils and each pocket on the distributor cap.  It does make life easier if you remove any of the wires from the distributor and see the label of where to reconnect it. Tracing and verifying each wire is still good at the next tune-up is soooo much easier this way.  Herb

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To Bob Coates:  Recently I changed the upper hose in my ’29 to get rid of the old  Toyota molded hose that a previous owner had installed. The new straight hose having a thicker wall didn’t bend, so I had to remove the coolant elbow from the block to make it fit. A surprise in there was a modern 165F thermostat. Not sure if there was a spot for it to fit originally, or someone machined it,in the elbow, block, or both. The car stays cool even on hot days with the gauge needle in the middle of the range.  The radiator has the original bellows thermostat parts installed, but no idea if they are functional. If the shutters stay open, that would explain why the car has a chromed stone guard to hide the black shutters.  If your car is apart enough to machine the elbow or head, it may be a reasonable alternative to having a long fight with the original bellows unit.  Good luck and no matter which way you decide to go, keep you cool.   Herb

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One more Pierce saved from the scrap heap – it’s a really good thing.  Congratulations on the interesting vehicle you built – it has a high Cool factor.  From the overall look, I agree that towing power is more than adequate but would worry more about stopping power when towing the car and bobcat as Greg suggested. It looks like you have addressed the issues around a ’30’s manual brake system under such a heavy load, so that concern should already be solved.  Good luck and safe journeys – I’ll see you next year.  Herb

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Jim,

Just like squeezing a truck through the underpass by deflating the tires, will your Lester tire fit the well and use the cover if you let out enough of the air?  I understand that having a flat in the middle of nowhere is when you REALLY need a way to re-inflate that spare tire.  There have been too many bad jokes about the spare being flat to not have an answer. If there is a reliable way to re-inflate the spare when it is needed, then looking for a way to use your side-mount hardware may be a reasonable thing to investigate.

Several hand held / battery operated tire pumps are available for reasonable prices.  Having a cordless battery powered one may solve the re-inflation issue.  Herb

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Back in my power plant days, we used a woven fiberglass “fire blanket” material to good effect. We used this fireproof, flexible fabric to contain cutting flames, weld splatter, grinder sparks and dust during hot work. It was very effective as a safety product to protect from heat and debris.  We purchased it by the roll, but smaller quantities should be available. It was a white to gray color and had larger diameter threads. Knives or heavy shears will cut it to length and width, then it can be held in place with tie wires or metal straps. Check with a welding supply house for availability.  Consider a couple of layers as thermal insulation around the pipe and mufflers to keep heat away from your feet and fuel lines.  Herb.

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James,

I had my sending unit rebuilt by Tri Starr Radiator ( Dan OHara, [email protected] ) and they did a very good job, replacing the cork float with brass, installing a new rheostat coil, thoroughly cleaned all the parts, and assembled it with the correct gears, all for a reasonable price. I can highly recommend them for this task.

It is worth an email or phone call to see if he has or can recommend where to get one.

The unit was manufactured by The W.C. Hagel Elec Co. and is a model RKD Gauge (sending unit)

Herb

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I remember when “kit” cars were pretty popular ….  Yep, you have one here!

At least it stayed out of the crusher long enough for you to make the rescue.

Congratulations on your new project.  Herb

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Oops..Pi Day is next Tuesday. Calendars are wonderful when read correctly. My apologies for the date mix up.

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For those of us using an Allen Synchrograph Model 30-89 distributor machine, a free download of the Operator’s Manual is available on the internet. The document was prepared in 1966 by the Army for their own use and updated during that same era. Because it was developed by a US Government agency and marked for unlimited distribution, it is available to all at no charge. It is well written and also covers distributors using dual sets of points for different cylinders, of which our cars with 8 cylinders using dual coils are one example. The link to the download site is:

https://www.liberatedmanuals.com/TM-9-4910-463-10.pdf

Regards, Herb

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Jim, my ’29 has the three shoe, 15 inch brakes. These brake drums are steel and too thin to machine well. There is no source of new drums to fit a Pierce, so the shoes need to be made to fit the existing steel drums. Fitting new shoes to existing drums means wearing of the linings enough to fit in the existing drum grooves. Conforming the linings to the drum greatly increases the actual contact area between drum and shoes linings, making stops better. To conform molded linings, set the brake drag to match the wheel on both sides of the car. Do this for both the front and rear. Drive the car on a very quiet street while riding the brakes pretty hard (good to have a hand throttle). Many rounds of adjusting and driving are needed, but as the linings wear in, the car will stop much straighter and shorter. However, after conforming, that set of shoes will fit only the one drum.  Woven linings have been preferred as they wear more quickly to match to the ridges of the drum. Molded linings take longer to wear in, but work well once conformed. Herb

 

 

 

 

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Apparently, I am the designated contrarian on the website topic. Overall, I do like the drop-down menu system, much more than the “ribbon” style used by several current applications for office work. Many years ago, I was involved in several website designs and found the drop-downs easier to create, maintain and update with new colors, descriptors and other features than other navigation methods.

As for my suggestion; separating the member and non-member parts of the site does make sense,  we should retain the separation, but make the guest / member sides more obvious.  I recommend that one of the “pubic” pages or early in the pubic area, we provide detailed a navigation “map” explaining the Guest boundaries vs the Member areas.  One possible way to designate this demarcation would be to use different color topic headers and drop-downs for the private vs public areas.  Using color separation plus a detailed “map” of the entire site can be used as a marketing tool. Providing a fairly detained and descriptive list of member ares available to members only will let the prospective members see what they are missing by remaining a Guest.  Allowing the guest to pull down the member topics (but with only blank data pages) will show the topics we provide as benefits to members .  Certainly the public / private areas need to be separate, but the boundaries and “future features” once the guest joins can be presented more clearly.

OK, will get off my soap box now.  Best Regards to all.  Herb Tull

 

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Lead-acid batteries will last longer than the 6 years if water is kept to the proper level and at full charge (hence use small trickle chargers when stored). The sure sign that a battery is on the way out is swelling of the case on sides or ends. Bulging of the case is a sure sign that at least one cell chemistry is/has sulfated over and is failing. One cause may be from inadequate charging (check voltage regulator or third brush settings). I have had 12 volt batteries in daily drivers that lasted 7+ years; while admittedly an extreme example, there is no reason to change batteries as long as voltage and specific gravity are within reasonable ranges.

Per Wikipedia: “As batteries cycle through numerous discharges and charges, some lead sulfate does not recombine into electrolyte and slowly converts into a stable crystalline form that no longer dissolves on recharging. Thus, not all the lead is returned to the battery plates, and the amount of usable active material necessary for electricity generation declines over time.

<span style=”text-decoration: underline;”>Sulfation occurs in lead–acid batteries when they are subjected to insufficient charging during normal operation.</span> It impedes recharging; sulfate deposits ultimately expand, cracking the plates and destroying the battery. Eventually, so much of the battery plate area is unable to supply current that the battery capacity is greatly reduced. In addition, the sulfate portion (of the lead sulfate) is not returned to the electrolyte as sulfuric acid. It is believed that large crystals physically block the electrolyte from entering the pores of the plates.  Herb

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