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Here’s how a Model T was loaded in my trailer, after I put a top on it, and the owner didn’t want to put the top down (it was an older kit, been in a box for years, it needed to stay stretched for a while!)…this was all the owner’s doing, it already had rear fenders off as he’s not quite finished the restoration…I thought it was funny looking, but it was effective! Lowered the whole car enough inches to clear the trailer by a couple….

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I thought someone might answer who owns a coupe. Most of the time, the bottom cushion is removable, so that you can get to the bolts holding a movable frame.

If not, then you should be able to reach under the front of the seat, and remove bolts or pins which attach adjusting mechanism to the floor.

Again, a coupe may be different than my Model 43 phaeton, for example, which has the removable cushion mentioned.

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I agree with Karl. I restored a very nice 1934 840 sedan back in the 70’s (a car we would now have gotten running and used, silly me and the rest of us). The original wood on the doors and rear quarters was not the high gloss, plastic look, that we so often think of now with wood. I had a good friend who was an expert on veneer, and he refinished them to an excellent look that was not overdone.

Karl describes it correctly.

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I’d be a little careful of letting the auction results set a price of a car, much less the “value” of a car.

I attended an AACA seminar in Philadelphia a couple of weeks ago, put on by a man who knows auctions, and he confirmed a lot of what I thought to be true.

Shill bids are legal in most states. In other words, you can be bidding against a friend of the owner, or, if there’s a reserve, the Coke machine in the back of the room the auctioneer is looking toward.

Some cars “sold” go back to owner, as he allows friend to bid a little too high. That said, the commission may be a small price to pay rather than taking a severe loss on a car.

“Fair” market prices are what a buyer and seller, both hobbyists, agree to on a car. “Market prices” are what a dealer and a seller agree to on a car. “Auction prices” are all over the place, and depend on level of honesty, integrity, and alcohol.

One thing that easily shows the bidding fever is an early Thunderbird, 1955-57. I had a beautiful 1956, about 3 years ago, had a hard time getting high twenties for it, after advertising it everywhere, and this was a car with both tops, probably 90 points on a 100 point judging system, aftermarket air and all power. Then you see a similar car sell at an auction for fifty or more. Not sensible.

These are all my personal thoughts, with no value at all, and don’t represent the thoughts of any nor all of the PAS membership.

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I’m not familiar with the 80 series water pump, but I can tell you what I did on a 1935 845 pump….new stainless shaft, then fit and installed two modern seals…each facing in opposite direction from the other. One kept the water in the pump, one kept the air from being sucked into the pump, was my reasoning. It worked perfectly with no leaks and no foaming of coolant, and no packing or tightening to bother with…

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Keep in mind that, just like a live auction, one can never be sure who one is bidding against. It’s very easy to have a friend bid up the car on Ebay, even if it “sells” to the friend, fees are relatively low…

On the marketability of brass cars, it seems any quality pre-1916 car has a good market and will sell, once you get to 35/40 horsepower the market is very good, and 50 HP and up the market is very strong.

I see numerous threads on different forums about how prices are down on antique cars, yet good cars still bring good prices, and for good cars I don’t see prices fading. Project cars, or cars needing some major work (such as a paint job or major mechanical), are more difficult to sell due to cost of restoration.

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One of the better systems for securing a car in a trailer (although you still had to climb under!) was on both a Cord and a Packard Darrin owned by the late Bill Pettit. At one point, new cars being delivered to dealers had these heavy metal loops which clamped to the springs and/or axle of the new cars, for securing when delivered. He took these, modified slightly, and attached in the spring/axle areas of his cars. Then, there was a nice big fat loop to hook to when securing in the trailer, and you didn’t have to worry about axles or brake lines or anything getting in the way. I asked him about judging, i.e. originality, and he said he’d never been questioned about the loops.

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I never realized the back of the rear axle had “Pierce” on it….down where no one would see it but the mechanic, and he’d KNOW what he was working on!!

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Well, Bob, another friend of mine recently went on a rant about how engineers are messing up the world by designing unnecessary and silly things, just to do something different, so that would seem to rule out any common sense I’d bring to this discussion.

I notice a support bar going across what appears to be the inside of the frame, with half moon cut outs, directly in front of, and supporting, the gas tank.

If one went to the outermost cut out, and ran a ratchet strap from that to the axle tube, couldn’t you pull the frame/body down a few inches?

The only concern would be using too big a strap, then you might lift the axle off the ground instead of lowering the body. See, I had to put in a silly engineering comment…..

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Greg, I agree with you that diesel is a great option for towing, and of course the torque is as you say, at much lower rpms than for a gasoline engine.

For personal reasons, I’ll stick with the gasoline engine, there are certain aspects of running a diesel that don’t appeal to me, my loss I’m sure, but I’m too old now to change my mind! (or rather, I’m old enough now that I don’t HAVE to change my mind!)

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One reason I like the earlier (2006 and back) Suburbans is the increased towing capacity with the 8.1 engine, which was not available after 2006. My 2001 3/4 ton Suburban, 8.1 engine, can tow 12,000 pounds, 340 HP @ 4300 rpm, 455 ft-lb torque @ 4200 rpm (the torque makes all the difference, the old saying is you buy horsepower, you drive torque).

For comparison, a 2013 3/4 ton with the 6.0 (366 cubic inch) engine has 352 HP @ 5400 rpm (note how they played with RPM to get a slightly higher HP) but only 382 ft-lbs torque @ 4200 rpm.

I mention the 2013, because it was about that time I was looking to upgrade my older 454 Suburban. A salesman at the local dealer kept telling me that the 6.0 would pull as well as the big engine. I told him if that was the case, I’d buy a new one, but there’d be a test. Went home and loaded my ’38 Packard (about 5500 pounds) in my enclosed trailer, went back, and we drove it. We then hooked the trailer to the new 6.0 truck, and there was no comparison, the 454 was effortless while the 6.0 was noticeably working. He admitted he could tell a big difference.

The 6.0 is fine for a lot of towing, and it does get better gas mileage, but I spent the time to find a 2001 3/4 ton Suburban with the 8.1 and loaded, with only 36,000 miles a few years back, and I’ve been happy ever since.

I think it also depends where you’ll do most of your towing. Here (Virginia), we have rolling hills and you need the torque for easy towing. When I lived in Louisiana, and did mostly Southern touring (read flatlands!), I had a tow vehicle with a 350 that did just fine. When I brought it north, I was embarrassed on the hills!

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I see now, on PreWarCar, that this phaeton has sold…..

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trunk outside….the stock luggage rack extends behind the regular bumper, so there’s an accessory bumper that wraps much further out and around the trunk…I didn’t want to do that, so made new brackets for the trunk rack that would pull it closer to the body, and within the regular bumper, just like the look a lot better…

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trunk

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door panel

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front seat picture

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back seat picture

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Greg, the interior is partially wrong in the car. The doors appear to have the correct pattern, but the seats should not be pleated. The Model 43 phaeton had smooth seats, with a center piping on the rear seat backrest and cushion. The second from rear top bow appears to be slightly elevated, which can only happen if the rear bow is too far forward. I don’t see a pure side shot with the top up, to see rear bow position, the rear curtain should be very close to vertical. The trunk on the car is incorrect, from what I understand, although I guess those are aftermarket. I’ve been told the all metal trunk on mine is correct for that model Pierce, and if I remember Bob Dluhy has the same trunk on his 43 phaeton as mine. The engine in this model is the only Pierce 8 with a timing gear, not chain, is what I’ve been told, wonder if the noise could be that, perhaps worn gears? As you say, hard to diagnose long distance.

I met my Pierce in 1965, was able to buy it in 1984, and have enjoyed it ever since….classic lines in a great looking and driving car…go for it!!

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Thanks for update, still looks like a nice car! Sure do like mine!

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Karl and Ralph, those are two good explanations for the low price. Unfortunately, shill bidding is legal for most auctions, as one guy said, he got tired of bidding against the Coke machine in the corner of the room. The 1913 “feels” right, and as Anthony so well explains, think it was well worth the money, although surely out of my ballpark (I’m still in a sandlot and these guys are in Wrigley Field)…

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