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Tony, lighten up on the three P thing. The reputation was started in
the early days when it was a well deserved thing. The three P’s had
the same quality though engineering was different. P. A. started
with birdcages and Peerless started with clothes wringers. Both
produced bicycles and used De Dion 1 cylinder engines in their
first cars. Pierce did reliability contests, Peerless(Winton
also) took their racing cars to Europe. With Barney Oldfield, the
Peerless Dragon set many world records and were top winners.
Peerless was the only other make to offer a 825 cube engine like
P. A.’s top offering(topping Packard’s by 300 cubes). Their 48HP
6 was stroked to be larger than the Pierce’s. In 1904 P. A.’s top
offering was a 93″ wheelbase, 24-28HP Great Arrow for $4,000 with
a problematic column shifter. Peerless’s best was a 102″ wheelbase
35HP, costing $6000.Peerless abruptly quit making top tier autos in
1916 when they only offered cars in the Cadillac range(Cad was a
mid priced car until the 20’s). By 1925 you could buy a top of the
line Peerless 4 pass. touring for $3,285 and P. A. Model 33 was
$5,250. This later fall from grace is what colors your opinion,
but the three P catchy phrase will outlive us both and further the
reputation of all three P’s.
Mike,
I don’t have access to the program. Could you please inform me as to
whether I’d be wiser to buy a Dodge, Monteverdi, or a Model 66 P.-A.,
from an investment point of view.
Tony Costa
Who made them for you and how difficult was it? Thanks for allowing
us to be part of your restoration without sharing the tab with us.
Though the market for entry level Classics and thirty horsepower and
lower antiques is moribund (scary), it is scandalous what fine Pierce-
Arrows will go for if a seller will meet a buyers reasonable offer. A
’36-’37 Studebaker in equal condition will bring $36,000. They built
6 to 9 thousand of them at a third of the P-A price. They have 9 main
bearings and had to be better cars than 120 Packards, LaSalles,
Airflows, Zephyrs, and other competitors in order to survive. The only
area that I find superior is the Planar independent front suspension. A
stunt had a ’36 Stude drive 60 MPH on the Worlds longest railroad
bridge! We need to be better communicators of Pierce-Arrow virtues and
advocate for justice in the market place! Anybody for a street
demonstration?
Yes Ed. I remember Watkins Glen. You gave me flying lessons there in
a ’36 V12. When I die, I want that I met Parnelli Jones and his
disciple Ed Minnie (in person), and have it engraved on my tomb stone.
The ride does bring up memories of those gory driver’s ed films I was
forced to watch as a youth.
Tony C.
Ed, What’s up with the 70-75MPH towing speed? Do you have “Dog the
bounty hunter”” on your behind? Haste makes waste!”
Tony, I like your ideas. We should strive to make memorable plaques
that can always be appreciated by all who view them.
Tony
I have a White(Sewing Machine Co.)dual cowl phaeton(the first
American production vehicle of this body type). It is painted
baby puke brown(fenders) and slime yellow. It never fails to seize
the attention of old car watchers. Brown can be a “moving””
color.”
The Classic Car Club of America states in its judging rules that no
deductions should occur for “metallic” paint jobs on Classics made
after November 1927.Studebaker, Hupmobile and Chrysler(and I’m sure
others) offered “metallic” as standard colors in 1932. I own a 1935
845 sedan painted in “Prostitute Blue” metallic, so I had to educate
myself in what’s proper and available in this finish. Though Pierce’s
paint shop probably didn’t come across many owners that required
metallic, it could have been obtained and likely was. Records are
not available, I assume.
“Mr. George H Robinson, a civilian employee in the Quartermaster Corps,
was selected to become the personal chauffeur of President Taft and the
first presidential chauffeur in American History.” Robinson’s first
assignment was to assemble a White House fleet; $12,000 had been
appropriated to purchase four cars.” Mr. Taft gave no instructions
regarding automobile styles or brands.” “Fortunately, General Bell
willingly advised the new chauffeur, and budget-wise Robinson sought
the best deals available.” He first bought a big steamer from the
White Sewing Machine Company in Cleveland.” “Next Mr. Robinson bought
two Pierce-Arrows in Buffalo, New York, and finally a Baker Electric
runabout in Cleveland.” The President on Wheels is where I got the
information( Herbert Ridgeway Collins). I believe the Baker was for
The First Ladies use. The list unadorned price for the White was $4,000
and the Baker was $1.850. Closed Pierce-Arrows in the smaller models
ranged in the $4,700 range. Somebody, somewhere was discounting their
price to make a sale to the White House. The White came with a winter
top that could be removed for open car use. The White is still in
existence and were magnificent cars that had reliable performance and
would fire up in no time due to their advanced boiler system. Driving
it was like having an automatic transmission.
A book could be written on Robinson, who started driving in 1899.
Taft would direct him to drive fast, leaving the secret service far
behind and frustrated.
Jim, I believe that the body plate was the type screwed into the right
lower front of the body on my 1934 836A. I have purchased a
reproduction for mine as it was missing when I bought it.
Thanks for sending the “born again” pictures. They’re very inspiring
and give us hope that the spirit of Buffalo can happen in our shops
and garages, too!
Six cars out of the 49 brought over a million dollars. A ’51 Hudson
Convertible for $171K as opposed to $146K for a wonderful Pierce? An
early electric car that somebody forgot to paint went for $95K (a
world record for electric sales?).The top sale(Duesenberg) and the
cheapest sale(’24 Lincoln)were both American. The Lincoln could hold
it’s own quality-wise with anything in the sale and at $42K was
being disgraced by the market(it was a custom bodied at that).It was
a sale that reflected the troubled world economy and a headwind for
even the best of cars.
Dean, I was very fortunate to have met your Uncles, Sam and Frank,
through my attendance of Rodney Flournoy’s amazing tours. They were
P-A experts and had a vast collection of P-A cars and motorcycles. My
memories of them are of a Pierce “66”” and their good humor. I always
regretted making the long trip to see their large collection.”
Back in the forties, great cars were passed over by collectors or
were obtained by junk yards due to lack of useable tires. Cars with
odd sized tires suffered the worst. Around 1949, Firestone
remanufactured their Non-Skid line of high pressure early tires and
car collecting took off. Firestone gained a great deal of advertising
from their efforts. We take our supply of tires for granted, but we
shouldn’t.
I checked out the auction site and couldn’t believe what I saw. 49
that were world class. The owner should have his bust displayed in
the Collector’s Hall of Fame that I have been planning.
Apple Electric Company converted gas lights to electric in 1907. In
1910 my Rambler came stock with electric sidelamps and tail light. I
once got a ride in a 1907 Packard 30 that had been converted to a
period electric starter that hung where the crank would be. The wires
were very thick.
Ed, the way you drive, you should have “mags”” and a parachute
attached on the rear for added braking. A crash helmet and various
dashboard religious symbols would offset the points that Greg
would deduct for straying from original. The best to you…
The other Tony”
Not only does Dave give of himself to the Club, but he helps hapless
members attempt restorations in parking lots. Preparation for a brass
encrusted P.-A. was not going well for the Minden Nev. Meet and Dave
generously saved the day( along with several others). Thanks Dave!
These posts are very “colorful, to say the least!
